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#Post#: 46129--------------------------------------------------
VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: m_odwong@hotmail.com
Date: November 18, 2024, 4:23 pm
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Hi,
The driver purchased 2 hour parking, but unintentionally
exceeded the stay at the car park by 17 minutes.
Is there anything that can be done to cancel the PCN, seems a
bit harsh to issue a penalty charge just for exceeding it by 17
min.
Apologies, it wouldn't let me create an account on imgur, so
have uploaded the PCN on the site. Here is the link to the
street view, which admittedly looks to be rather old, and not
entirely sure if that sign next to the machine is still there:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4921276,0.0622832,3a,75y,209.59h,87.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxg4D7xEtIVjbuNy9WLOp-A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D2.6234244695773867%26panoid%3Dxg4D7xEtIVjbuNy9WLOp-A%26yaw%3D209.58785472103938!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Thanks,
Maikol
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#Post#: 46162--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: b789
Date: November 19, 2024, 5:55 am
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You need to check the signs at the car park. The PCN is from
VCS. The signs in the GSV, show it is run by Excel. However, the
GSV images are over 7 years old.
Please let us know which company is showing on the signs now.
Take a photo.
#Post#: 48898--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: m_odwong@hotmail.com
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:15 am
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Some of the signs just show Excel, and others showing both Excel
and VCS. The main sign next to the parking meter does say the
contract is with VCS.
Also, the initial appeal I made was rejected on the basis there
is sufficient signage, making it clear that a £100 charge will
be levied if parked outside the Terms and Conditions displayed,
and that I exited the car park after the ticket expired.
Do I have any basis on which to appeal this?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 48901--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: b789
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:36 am
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--- Quote from: m_odwong@hotmail.com link ---
>
> Some of the signs just show Excel, and others showing both
Excel and VCS. The main sign next to the parking meter does say
the contract is with VCS.
>
> Also, the initial appeal I made was rejected on the basis
there is sufficient signage, making it clear that a £100 charge
will be levied if parked outside the Terms and Conditions
displayed, and that I exited the car park after the ticket
expired.
>
> Do I have any basis on which to appeal this?
>
--- End Quote ---
So you've already appealed this. You didn't say and I've just
wasted my time composing one for you. It's too late to do
anything except you can try your luck with the kangaroo court
that is the IAS. I suspect that the only way this is gong to be
resolved is in the county court.
If those are your own photos, make sure you keep the Metadata
for them and, if you can, get them date and time stamped. If
not, get your own photos of any signs at the car park that have
the Excel logo on them.
In the context of private parking enforcement, the entity named
on the signage at a parking location is typically considered the
contracting party. If the signage displays "Excel Parking
Services Ltd." but the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is issued by
"Vehicle Control Services Ltd. (VCS)," this discrepancy is
significant. Despite both companies being sister entities with
common directors, they are separate legal entities with distinct
company registration numbers.
A contract is formed between the driver and the entity named on
the signage. Therefore, if Excel Parking Services Ltd. is the
company identified on the signs, any contractual agreement would
be with them, not VCS. This means VCS lack the legal standing to
enforce the parking charge, as they are not a party to the
contract formed by the signage.
VCS/Excel have lost several claims because of this discrepancy.
If you receive an NtK from a company different from the one
named on the signage, you should appeal the charge by
highlighting this inconsistency. In your appeal, state that the
contract was with the company named on the signage (Excel
Parking Services Ltd.), and therefore, VCS has no legal
authority to enforce the charge. Make sure you have the photos
of the signs to support your appeal.
Here is a suggested appeal:
--- Quote ---
> Parking Charge Notice Reference: [Insert PCN Number]
> Vehicle Registration: [Insert Vehicle Registration]
>
> This is a formal Registered Keeper appeal of the Parking
Charge Notice (PCN) referenced above, issued by Vehicle Control
Services Ltd. (VCS). I do not believe this charge is valid, and
I request its immediate cancellation on the following grounds:
>
> 1. Incorrect Legal Entity on Signage
> The signage at the location in question clearly identifies the
operator as Excel Parking Services Ltd., not Vehicle Control
Services Ltd. (VCS). It is well-established that Excel Parking
Services Ltd. and Vehicle Control Services Ltd. are separate
legal entities with distinct company registration numbers,
despite having the same directors.
>
> As a result, the contract entered into at the time of parking
was with Excel Parking Services Ltd., the entity named on the
signage. VCS, as a separate legal entity, has no standing to
enforce any alleged contractual terms or to issue this PCN.
>
> 2. Failure to Establish Legal Standing
> In order for VCS to pursue this charge, you must demonstrate
legal standing to do so. Since Excel Parking Services Ltd. is
the company named on the signage and therefore the party to any
potential contract, VCS has no contractual or legal authority to
act in this matter. I request that you provide evidence of your
authority to issue this PCN and to enforce any charges in
relation to parking at this location.
>
> 3. Request for Evidence
> If you believe that VCS is entitled to enforce this charge,
please provide the following evidence:
>
> [indent]1. A copy of the contract between VCS and the
landowner granting you authority to operate and enforce parking
at this site.
> 2. Evidence of your compliance with the BPA/IPC Single Code of
Practice (SCoP) in relation to signage and correspondence.
> 3. A detailed explanation of how VCS has the legal right to
pursue charges at a location where Excel Parking Services Ltd.
is the named entity.[/indent]
>
> 4. Photographic Evidence
> Should VCS not cancel this PCN, I have photographs of the
signage at the location, which clearly display the name Excel
Parking Services Ltd. and will not hesitate to evidence them in
any subsequent litigation should VCS be so inclined to persist
in this futile exercise.
>
> Given the above, I suggest the immediate cancellation of this
PCN. Additionally, pursuing this charge without demonstrating
the legal standing to do so constitutes a breach of consumer
protection laws.
>
> If you reject this appeal, please provide a detailed response
addressing each of the points raised, along with the necessary
evidence to support your position. Failure to do so will result
in further action, including a formal complaint to the IPC.
>
> Please consider this a formal request for your response within
the timeframe specified by the BPA/IPC Single Code of Practice.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 48903--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:47 am
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--- Quote ---
> Apologies, it wouldn't let me create an account on imgur
--- End Quote ---
You don't need to create an account with Imgur in order to
upload pictures there
#Post#: 48904--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: m_odwong@hotmail.com
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:50 am
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Apologies, I had to quickly respond to the PCN as I was reaching
the "discount" time limit in which to lodge the appeal.
Thanks for the suggested appeal, but on the sign it does say
though that the contract is with VCS. Just so I'm clear are you
essentially suggesting that the contract with VCS is void
because the car park is managed by Excel?
#Post#: 48905--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: b789
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:52 am
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It doesn't matter as long as there is at least one sign in the
car park that shows Excel. However, by fretting over the "mugs
discount" you have messed up the initial appeal. You should not
have appealed simply because you are thinking about paying the
Mugs Discount. You either want to fight it or you don't.
#Post#: 48906--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:56 am
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That main terms and conditions sign is bizarre. It bears Excel's
logo, then says that VCS are the creditor and the entity with
whom contracts are formed, but then says that Excel will have
the right to take legal action!
#Post#: 48907--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 8, 2024, 12:02 pm
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OP, take us through the process pl.
The driver bought parking rights at what time??
Drivers have up to 10 minutes to purchase parking rights.
£100 parking charge payable if time of parking rights exceeded.
Your first post is misleading in the context of the signs. This
is NOT an entry/exit equation as suggested by the NTK, it's a
time exited-grace period-time parking rights bought v parking
rights period equation.
#Post#: 48914--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Parked after expiry time - Powis Car Park, Woolwich
DIR By: m_odwong@hotmail.com
Date: December 8, 2024, 1:21 pm
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It's pretty much as per the PCN.
A ticket was bought for two hours, which expired at 14:35. So
the tickets would have been bought at 12:35. The cameras have
the car entering the car park at 12:32 and exiting at 14:49,
which exceeded the duration by 14 minutes, and is the reason for
the PCN.
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