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#Post#: 46099--------------------------------------------------
Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St Annes
Street
DIR By: JacobC21
Date: November 18, 2024, 12:53 pm
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Liverpool City Council
Yellow box junction
Contravention 31J - Entering and Stopping in a Box Junction when
prohibited
Location: St Annes Street @ 18:36
(Weird note, the location should be St Anne Street, not St Annes
Street, not sure if this technicality can be used)
In simple terms, I entered the box junction following the car
ahead of me, which, only halfway through, decided to begin
breaking. Unfortunately, I became stuck behind it. I couldn't
change to the right lane as I intended to make a left-hand turn,
which was out of view. From the video, I believe I had no other
opportunity once stuck here. Does anyone have any suggestions on
how I might appeal?
The Area:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/UTx5Byxq3CMFyxbRA
Dropbox link of Video:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/17LJ0JEywq3cDbjcKWLVJ4ZgEjuxWjySO/view?usp=sharing
FYI: My Reg is FT07 BPO
HTML https://i.imgur.com/PGMvENX.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/A10wZhQ.jpeg
#Post#: 46110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 18, 2024, 1:36 pm
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The video is flawed, because it does not show your entry into
the box. The offence is committed at the entry to the box, and
appeals have been won on the basis that the video does not show
a contravention.
Please post the PCN, all sides, with only name and address
redacted. I don't think we've yet seen a Liverpool PCN for a
yellow box contravention yet, so need to assess it for errors of
content.
#Post#: 46114--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: JacobC21
Date: November 18, 2024, 2:30 pm
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Sure, image below. apologies for the quality of the photo, I am
away from home and can't get a photo myself.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/H4cGmd0.jpeg
#Post#: 46133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 18, 2024, 5:00 pm
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I am immediately suspicious of this PCN, the first we have seen,
I think, from Liverpool for a yellow box junction. In the first
paragraph of the text on the PCN, it refers to the location
being part of a bus lane or gate, yet this is totally
irrelevant, because the alleged contravention is stopping in a
yellow box junction when prohibited. My suspicion is
strengthened when I look at their website, which only refers to
Parking PCNs and Bus Lane PCNs. Clearly they have done nothing
on their website to update it to reflect that they are now
enforcing moving traffic offences, not just bus lanes. Council
incompetence and stupidity strikes again ! what a load of
tossers !
I reckon this PCN is just a quick cobble by some idiot in
Liverpool council using the previous PCN template for their
enforcing of bus lanes under the old 2007 regulations. Therefore
it is very important that you post the rest of the PCN so it can
be examined for errors of content that could make it void. The
text related to bus lanes is not a winner at adjudication on its
own under "procedural impropriety".
#Post#: 46134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: JacobC21
Date: November 18, 2024, 5:03 pm
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I'll get a full front and back of the PCN posted tomorrow.
I'd also just like to highlight the previous point where the
location stated is also technically incorrect, has this been
enough to overturn any PCN's before?
#Post#: 46137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 18, 2024, 6:27 pm
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--- Quote from: JacobC21 link ---
>
> I'll get a full front and back of the PCN posted tomorrow.
>
> I'd also just like to highlight the previous point where the
location stated is also technically incorrect, has this been
enough to overturn any PCN's before?
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think the slight error on the street name is a winner,
but clearly would be part of any representations to the council
and also at the adjudicators.
However, the bottom line is, if we find a significant error such
that a win could be acheived at adjudication, are you prepared
to risk the full PCN penalty ? No discount option at the
adjudicators, I'm afraid.
#Post#: 46139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 18, 2024, 8:55 pm
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The deadline dates for payment are already wrong.
#Post#: 46204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:14 am
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I've looked at the video and it's a very long box outside a fire
station and looks to extend well beyond the fire station. I'll
bet it's a big trap now it's enforced and I recall it as I was
in Liverpool a few weeks ago and drove down there - a most
confusing city.
As for you couldn't change lane owing to turning left, it's
better to bail out into another lane than get a PCN...
#Post#: 46298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: JacobC21
Date: November 19, 2024, 5:23 pm
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HTML https://i.imgur.com/I3WQCkd.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/12zF86s.jpeg
Apologies for the late post here. This is the full PCN.
[member=12]Incandescent[/member]
#Post#: 46308--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool City Council - Yellow Box Contravention 31J @ St
Annes Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 19, 2024, 5:48 pm
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As I suspected, their PCN is complete rbbish, in that it omits
two of the statutory grounds for an appeal. One has to wonder
whether they even read the 2022 regulations they quote on the
top of Page 1 of the PCN !
Anyway, here are the relevant regulations in full: -
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62e14db38fa8f5649f912647/TE9.pdf
Regulation 5 defines the statutory appeal grounds that must be
included. They have missed out 5 (4)(a),(f) and (g).
Omission of these is therefore a procedural impropriety and you
should therefore submit representations on that basis.
They have truncated the first ground listed, "the penalty
exceeded the amount". This should read "the penalty charge
exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case"
They have even put in an appeal ground that is not in the
regulations : "the police have already started criminal
proceedings" !!!
The PCN is just total shite !! YOu need to get an adjudicator to
see this, and the person who prepared the template needs to be
sacked forthwith.
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