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#Post#: 45303--------------------------------------------------
Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: Joe0002
Date: November 12, 2024, 3:37 pm
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Council: Hammersmith & Fulham
Alleged: Entry into box junction west of Holland Park roundabout
Incident date: 18th June 2023
First notification: November 2024
PCN #: unknown
On the 18th of June 2023 i supposedly entered into a box
junction and incurred a PCN. unaware of this incident, i sold my
car around the 10th of July 2023, and subsequently moved address
on the 1st December 2023. No post forwarding was put into place.
The first time i was made aware of the incident was when I
received a text from Marston Recovery at the start of November
2024 indicating it had moved to enforcement stage. As i was
unaware of this incident, i deleted the text assuming it was a
scam and emailed the Marston customer service to clarify if this
was a legitimate text. No response has been received so far.
I then received the below document in the post to my new address
which confirmed this was a legitimate case, at which point the
liability is now £279:
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/a/xvpjoKW[/img]
HTML https://imgur.com/a/xvpjoKW
I am happy to concede that I am liable for the PCN, but i refuse
to pay the inflated fee being charged by Marston Recovery as I
was not made aware of the incident originally. Marston Recovery
managed to get my new address and my phone number to send this
bailiff notification, so why was the council unable to?
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 45308--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 12, 2024, 3:55 pm
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Here's the video - looks like a contravention at face value.
But the issue you'll have is getting the case back on track...
HTML https://imgur.com/zd0BzSc
[img]
HTML https://i.imgur.com/zd0BzSc.mp4[/img]
#Post#: 45312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: Joe0002
Date: November 12, 2024, 4:03 pm
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Thank you for the video! Bad driving on my behalf but it’s such
a large box, it’s difficult to judge. I will concede that I am
liable, but do I have a case to pay the original fine, or is
there no avoiding the bailiff fees?
#Post#: 45315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 12, 2024, 4:08 pm
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Wait for further input as this is purely procedural at this
stage, you aren't in a position to challenge the original PCN.
I think advice at this stage is usually to pay to stop the fee
increasing further, as I think you can still attempt to get the
PCN reset and get the bailiff fees reimbursed. But wait for
others who are more expert in that area than me.
Getting it reset involves completing a form and convincing the
authority/court that missing the original documents is unlucky
timing. Based on the small window between the PCN and selling
the car I'd say you have a decent chance.
If/when that happens we can look at challenge options.
EDIT - although thinking about it a bit more, I'd have thought
H&F would have written to you at your original address before
you moved out?
#Post#: 45319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 12, 2024, 4:20 pm
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Before we can get started on this you are strongly advised to
PAY to avoid further costs.
If anyone else here says otherwise ignore them.
#Post#: 45325--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: RichardW
Date: November 12, 2024, 4:27 pm
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Is there a chance the address on the V5 was not the one you were
living at at the time of the incident?
#Post#: 45327--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: Joe0002
Date: November 12, 2024, 4:30 pm
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The address on the V5 would only refer to my old address.
I will pay this fine now and hope to have some fees reimbursed.
Would anyone be able to suggest how I approach having them
reimbursed?
#Post#: 45344--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 12, 2024, 4:54 pm
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If you are to submit a credible Out-of-Time Statutory
Declaration, (TEC forms PE2 and PE3), you need to explain why
the PCN was not received and that it was not your fault it went
elsewhere.
Once the offence is detected, the council have 28 days to send
out a PCN. They obtain the name and address of the keeper of the
vehicle from DVLA using an electronic enquiry facility.
You say you sold the vehicle on or around the 10th July. With a
contravention date of 18th June, they would have obtained your
name and address from DVLA.
So the question is, was the address on your V5C for the car on
the date of the contravention correct ? If it wasn't then you
will struggle to overturn the PCN and the debt, because it is
your duty as a motor vehicle owner to keep the V5C up-to-date.
#Post#: 45362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: November 12, 2024, 7:07 pm
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It's not just the PCN (HZ70486154) that's gone astray, there's
also the Charge Certificate and the Order for Recovery. All
three notices would have been sent to the Registered Keeper's
name & address as held by the DVLA on the 18th June 2023. The
sale of the vehicle on the 10th July 2023 doesn't matter as LBHF
would have asked for the Registered Keeper details that were
applicable to the 18th June 2023 no matter when they actually
made the request to the DVLA.
Those three documents were likely sent over a period of three to
four months and all three failed to arrive. Almost certainly all
three were posted prior to the 1st Dec 2023.
So it seems highly unlikely that the RK details were correct
with the DVLA on the 18th June 2023. The DVLA must have held
some other address or name and address.
[member=3383]Joe0002[/member] can you throw any light on that?
Do you have a photocopy of the V5c that you can check? I have a
PDF scan of mine so that I can apply for parking permits and the
like.
I put the PCN number and the car reg into the LBHF website and
the PCN is found. Not that it's really relevant but I then tried
to check the car tax to see when the V5c was last updated but
the vehicle details are not found. Nor is the MOT history found.
Perhaps the car has been scrapped, or does it exist at all?
It does beg the question though: Is DP66JKO the registration of
the car you used to own, the car that's the subject of the PCN?
And is the reg correct?
#Post#: 45370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiff stage - Not notified of PCN for box junction entry,
straight to enforcement
DIR By: Joe0002
Date: November 13, 2024, 1:29 am
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[member=12]Incandescent[/member] looking at these replies I
should have kept a copy of the V5, a lesson learnt for future.
The only other address it would be under would be my parents
house where I used to live, and they have never moved home.
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