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#Post#: 44880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: November 10, 2024, 7:36 am
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--- Quote from: Dudess73 link ---
>
> PCN Date Ctvn Status Bailiff
> AG45512514 18/04/2024 Warrant Issued Marstons
> AG45525990 20/04/2024 Warrant Issued Marstons
> AG45543981 24/04/2024 Warrant Issued CDER
> AG45617931 03/05/2023 Warrant Requested ***
> AG45698456 16/05/2023 Warrant Requested ***
> AG45771024 23/05/2024 OfR sent ***
> AG45780433 24/05/2024 OfR sent ***
>
--- End Quote ---
Unfortunately the Councils PCN viewer only shows us the date of
Contravention and not the dates of the progression actions.
You have three PCNs with the bailiffs. The earliest two are
Marstons and the third is CDER. I'd ask Bailiff Advice Online
HTML https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/
if that is legal. Should they
all be Marstons? Any Statutory Declaration will be late and out
of time.
PCNs 4 & 5 are status Local Authority warrant of control
requested. That is normally processed very quickly by the TEC.
It tells us that they're beyond the Order for Recovery stage and
are pending assignment to a bailiff for collection. Any
Statutory Declaration will be late and out of time.
PCNs 6 & 7 are status Order for Recovery sent. We don't know the
dates of the OfRs so they could be still within time for a
statutory declaration. I wonder if you should try anyway and
pronto? The TEC will bounce the SDs if they are out of time and
tell you to resubmit with OOT applications, might take 2-3
weeks. Or you could phone the Council and see can you get the
dates of the OfRs and report back.
So there at least five PCNs which require Out of Time
applications as well as Statutory Declarations. But what to put
on the OOT applications?
Curiously you seem to have made the same contravention on the
20th May 2019 and paid the PCN. So you must have known about the
prohibited left turn. What happened this time?
Statutory Declarations and the Out of Time applications need to
bw witnessed. This can be done FOC at any convenient County
Court. Phone and check opening hours and make an appoinment of
need. Each PCN needs it's own SD and the first five and possibly
the last two require individual OOT applications. Complete the
SD's to the effect that you did not receive the PCNs. For the
purposes of these documents you are the Respondent and the
Council is the Applicant.
But don't submit anything without posting up a draft of what
you're going to put on the OOT applications. And you are well
advised to get advice from Bailiff Advice Online
HTML https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/
for completing the OOT
applications.
#Post#: 44896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Dudess73
Date: November 10, 2024, 9:06 am
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Dear Enceladus,
I am preparing the following forms for all seven PCNs
PE2
PE3
Please see what I have written below
I have filled out both form with the same wording as I dont
understand how they differ.
I have recently become aware that I had received multiple PCN’s
when the new owners informed me that a bailiff appeared at my
former address with regard to unpaid fine. I have not receive
any correspondence from Barnet Council in respect of any PCN’s.
I moved address on the 29th March 2024 and had a Royal Mail had
a redirection notice to send my post to my new address. I am
including the redirection order attached from Royal Mail.
I have not yet updated my vehicle registration address yet. The
move was very stressful, and I was not able to think clearly and
for this I apologise.
I contacted Barnet council immediately I heard from my
neighbours to find out more details. This was the first I heard
of any contravention. I have now come to find out that there are
7 fines for myself for the same contravention. 7 fines for the
same offence clearly constitutes repetitive issue of the same
PCN in breach of the statutory guidance for local authorities.
If I had received the first PCN I would have paid the fine
immediately and not made the same left turn with the knowledge
this was a contravention. I certainly would not have made the
same mistake 6 more times.
The bailiffs have threatened to remove my car. I have two young
children. This has caused me and my family undue stress.
I would respectfully ask you to immediately suspend all
enforcement action in respect of these PCN’s and allow me to pay
the original PCN in full.
I look forward to hearing form you by return.
#Post#: 44897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Dudess73
Date: November 10, 2024, 9:08 am
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I too noticed that I had made the same mistake in 2019 however i
can’t remember having the fine- it could have been my husband
driving.
#Post#: 44910--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: November 10, 2024, 10:35 am
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You've drifted into the realms of mitigation. The court officer
cannot factor mitigation into their decision to grant or reject
your Out of Time application. They can only consider that you
have valid reasons for being lat and therefore needing an
extension of the limit to submit a Statutory Declaration.
So sticking with the facts and bearing in mind there needs to be
one application per PCN. Modify it if you wish. Othere may
advise changes, probaly to make it shorter. And I still suggest
you seek help from BAO as to the wording, that's her speciality.
"I did not receive the original Penalty Charge Notice or any of
the following notices, in particular I did not receive an Order
for Recovery. I moved house to my current address on dd/mm/yyyy
and arranged a mail redirection from Royal Mail for nn months to
cover any overlap and prevent the circumstances that I now find
myself in. (Please see the attached redirection notice.) Despite
the mail redirection I did not receive any correspondence from
the London Borough of Barnet, however I did receive mail from
other parties so I had no reason to suspect the redirection
wasn't working.
I only became aware that there might be a problem of outstanding
PCNs as a result of bailiff visits to my old address acting on
behalf of the London Borough of Barnet. I was advised of these
visits by the new owners of my old address (or how did you find
out?). I then telephoned the London Borough of Barnet and
discovered that there were seven Penalty Charge Notices
outstanding and I had not received any documentation at all in
respect of these notices. I was advised to submit Statutory
Declarations with applications to submit them out of time.
Please grant my application to submit a statutory seclaration
out of time."
On the PE3 SD form tick the box that says "I did not receive
the: Notice to Owner (Parking contravention) or Enforcement
Notice (Bus lane contravention) or Penalty Charge Notice (Moving
Traffic contravention or Congestion Charging contravention)".
Make sure you only tick one box. You don't really need anything
in the reasons box, but you could put I did not receive the
original PCN.
On the OOT put your reasons in the box if they fit. Otherwise
put "Please see attached".
I still advise you to get your address updated.
#Post#: 44912--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 10, 2024, 10:49 am
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--- Quote from: Dudess73 link ---
>
> I am preparing the following forms for all seven PCNs
> PE2
> PE3
>
> Please see what I have written below
> I have filled out both form with the same wording as I dont
understand how they differ.
>
--- End Quote ---
You need PE2 and PE3 for each PCN. I'm not sure you understand
that?
Note Enceladus' comments.
It is important that you DO understand the purpose of each form.
The PE3s are you Statutory declaration and only need minimal
detail.
The PE2s are requests to file the PE3s late and where you
explain in full why you should be allowed to do that.
One thing I immediately noticed, from a brief look, is that you
talk about addresses but don't say what they are? Or offer any
evidence of the same.
You can attach whatever is appropriate and refer to it,
annotating attachments suitably.
Likewise you can type out your 'reasons' on a separate sheet if
it doesn't fit the box.
#Post#: 44918--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Dudess73
Date: November 10, 2024, 11:18 am
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Thank you, I will add in the addresses.
Do you think that I should tell them about Royal Mail not
redirecting my post because they had my married name in the
redirect- yet my maiden name would have been in the
correspondence?
Then the name in the PE 2/3 forms- should it be my maiden
name(V5c) or my married name?
#Post#: 44931--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Dudess73
Date: November 10, 2024, 12:27 pm
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I have changed the wording of the PE 3 - I have made a short
declaration as to why I did not receive the pcn documents.
Then my PE 2 has all the details of addresses, Royal Mail
redirection issue and V5c incorrect name details . I am getting
this legally signed now as I do want to make sure this all goes
out before start of the day tomorrow. Hoping and praying. Thank
you for your help. My dad used to crusade on this, he is
departed now so I am going it alone so thank you for your kind
support.
#Post#: 44973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: November 10, 2024, 5:59 pm
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Where are you getting the forms witnessed on a Sunday evening?
Needs to be done FOC at the County Court or a solicitor's office
who will make a charge. £7-£10 per doc. Or you can try a
Magistrate but they charge as well.
I still advise that you get the text of the OOT application
reviewed by Bailiff Advice Online before you get the forms
witnessed. Also how do you know that an OOT application is
required for the sixth and seventh PCNs?
#Post#: 44974--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Dudess73
Date: November 10, 2024, 6:10 pm
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I have a family member who is a solicitor, luckily for me.
When I spoke to TEC, or was it Barnet council, I cant remember
which one it was who gave me the information, one of them told
me that they are all out of time.
I have contacted the bailiff advice website which you gave me,
and also Mr Mustard/ Mr Dishman who is now in email contact with
me. He says that he will help me with the wording for my OOT
forms.
#Post#: 61564--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs. Fine sent to old adress.
DIR By: Dudess73
Date: March 10, 2025, 5:12 am
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Hello, :D
Thank you to all who advised me on my case - I have received
notification that all of the charges are now revoked from the
collections agency and back with the council which has re-issued
me with my PCN's back to the original amount. Thank you so much,
I was in a very bad frame of mind at the end of last year
because of this - but this forum has been really supportive.
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