DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 44672--------------------------------------------------
Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: November 8, 2024, 3:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Received the below on 5th November.
I'm unsure if it's compliant PoFA 2012, but happy to take
guidance.
I was not the driver.
Key dates/info;
Contravention date - 18th October 2024
Notice issue date - 30th October 2024
PCN received - 5th November 2024
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 44743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: b789
Date: November 9, 2024, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's non-PoFA. Easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown
drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation
on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper
(NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no
inference or assumptions can be made.
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which
means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot
transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the
known keeper.
Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove
anything from it:
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. Gemini has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
Gemini have no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
No guarantee that they will accept it as they are scammers and
are out to get your money.
#Post#: 46290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: November 19, 2024, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As expected, they've pushed back with the following; (my
thoughts after)
--- Quote ---
> We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the
above numbered Charge Notice.
> Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the
driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was
> observed. However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver
was on the date in questions from the information given within
> your appeal.
> In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please
follow the instructions below:
> 1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to
appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename and
> Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.
> 2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and
dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that
you
> are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be
an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The
> statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and
Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS.
> Please ensure that correspondence is sent to APCOA Parking, PO
Box 815, Wigan, WN1 9WX in order to correctly adhere
> with the appeals process.
> OR
> 3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at
www.geminiparkingsolutions.com by following the links for "Pay
Now" It is
> your responsibility to ensure that payment is received within
our office by the date specified.
> As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for
an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above
> actions to be complied with.
> We are willing to re-offer you the original discounted charge
of £60 as full and final settlement of this Notice, if payment
is
> received within our office on or before the 03/12/24.
> If payment is not received by this date, the amount payable
will revert to £100, payable by 17/12/24. Failure to pay this
charge
> within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery action
been taken and further costs up to an additional £70.00 been
> incurred.
> Yours sincerely,
> Appeals Department
--- End Quote ---
I'm not too familiar with this side of PCNs/fines/etc (I'm a lot
better at dealing with councils!), but I imagine they're trying
to corner me into declaring who the driver is. My understanding
is, that if I continue to refuse to do so, they won't actually
have anyone that they are able to fine. Is this correct?
#Post#: 46311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: b789
Date: November 19, 2024, 6:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You can simply ignore them or have a bit of fun at their
expense. I already drafted a letter for a similar UKPC request
earlier today. Here is the response, adapted for your situation:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Gemini Appeals Department,
>
> Thank you for your letter dated [date] regarding Parking
Charge Reference [Reference]. Your generous "gesture of
goodwill" in placing the charge on hold is appreciated, however,
as there is no legal merit to your claim, I can assure you that
this is entirely unnecessary
>
> Unless there is a competent adult there that can assist you, I
will explain why I will not be acceding to your request for the
"full name and address of the driver." Asking for information
that I am under no legal obligation to provide is, to put it
kindly, ambitious.
>
> As I already pointed out in my original appeal, I am appealing
as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle, and Schedule 4 of the
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not require me to identify
the driver. Attempting to hold me liable without Gemini fully
complying with all the requirements of Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4
says a lot about what appears to be gross incompetence by your
company. You might want to review the legislation to avoid
similar errors in future.
>
> Your failure to meet the statutory requirements means that
liability for this charge cannot be transferred to me as the
Keeper. It seems you are now fishing for information in an
attempt to correct these oversights. Sadly, for you, this isn't
how the law works.
>
> I note your insistence on trying to identify the driver,
despite having issued a Notice to Keeper (NtK) that fails to
comply with PoFA. Without such compliance, you hold no legal
basis to transfer liability from the driver to me, the Keeper.
While I appreciate your attempt to persuade me into volunteering
information that the law does not compel me to provide, I must
politely decline.
>
> Your three "options" are noted, though they seem to overlook a
fourth and legally sound course of action, that you cancel the
Parking Charge Notice (PCN) due to your inability to pursue the
matter under the legislation that governs private parking. For
the avoidance of doubt:
>
> [indent]1. I will not be naming the driver.
>
> 2. I do not need to obtain the driver's consent to appeal, as
I am under no obligation to identify them in the first place.
>
> 3. I certainly will not be paying this speculative
invoice.[/indent]
>
> Additionally, should you choose to reject this appeal, you
will be doing nothing more than confirming your own
incompetence. I will immediately appeal to the IAS, where you
have absolutely no chance of success due to your repeated
failures to comply with the law. All you will achieve is wasting
your money on the IAS fee in the process.
>
> I suggest that you consider passing this response to an adult
who can actually deal with it properly and perhaps even
comprehend why you have no hope at IAS. I recommend researching
PoFA Paragraph 9, doing your homework, and understanding why
your Notice to Keeper is not compliant. Until then, your
continued insistence on pursuing this matter borders on the
ridiculous and says a lot about the levels of intellect within
Gemini.
>
> Since the outcome here is obvious, I suggest saving us both
time and effort by cancelling this parking charge immediately.
Should the intellectual malnourishment prevail and you refuse, I
look forward to receiving an IAS code so an independent appeals
assessor can confirm what you clearly cannot grasp.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Your Name]
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 46319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: November 20, 2024, 12:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is Gemini so there won't be a POPLA code as they're an IAS
member.
#Post#: 46321--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: b789
Date: November 20, 2024, 2:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My bad. I had APCOA on my minder some reason. Response amended
accordingly. :-[
#Post#: 46322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: November 20, 2024, 2:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Gemini's response does say that driver nominations should go to
APCOA (from memory the latter bought out the former)
#Post#: 46325--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: b789
Date: November 20, 2024, 3:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
APCOA acquired Gemini Parking Solutions in 2022.
I’m sure mention of either company in the response will make the
point.
#Post#: 46334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: shadowliner
Date: November 20, 2024, 4:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ha! I am enjoying the sarcasm/fury in that reply.
Happy to do the dance with Gemini and will use this reply.
Thank you!
#Post#: 46345--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
DIR By: b789
Date: November 20, 2024, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Let's see how they respond with their appeal rejection.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page