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#Post#: 44650--------------------------------------------------
PCN in Scotland - Excel Parking
DIR By: McGern
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:28 pm
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Hi,
Similar position as others. Keeper received a PCN from Excel
parking in a Scottish carpark.
Infringement happened on 06/10/2024
Issue date was 30/10/2024 (24 days)
Received letter on 07/11/2024
Circumstance
Driver paid for 2h parking. Driver got back 10ish minutes late
due to circumstances, no ability to extend ticket, so driver
bought a new ticket for another hour (entering number plate to
get ticket), just to try and be safe.
All that took about another 10 minutes, so was clocked out 22
minutes over the original ticket time.
Driver has the tickets, and keeper was going to appeal, but was
advised to potentially just ignore it (or not send the tickets
as part of the appeal) because by having the tickets implicates
the driver (although wouldn't disclose that).
Questions are
- Does POFA still not apply in Scotland? (It's now November, and
was reading that it is supposed to come into force in 2024)
- If POFA was (or is) in play, would it be dated from the
contravention date, the issue date or the received date?
- Is there any time periods that voids the ticket issue either
14 or 28 days, or does that only apply to POFA
- Should the PCN be ignored completely?
- If it shouldn't be ignored, what should go into the appeal to
give as much evidence as possible without implicating the
driver? Should the tickets purchased be included?
- Keeper believes this ticket should be dismissed, mostly on the
grounds that 2 tickets we paid for which more than covered the
time spent in the carpark -should there be any mention of
commercial justification since £100 for a parking infringement
is out of order given that for many carparks you pay on exit
(which I understand is part of the business model for these
types of companies).
Thanks very much, really appreciate any advice given.
Kind regards,
M
#Post#: 44654--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Scotland
DIR By: Daim456
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:38 pm
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POFA does not apply in Scotland.
You may thought about Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 however it
is not in enforce for the transfer of liability to registered
keeper.
If the letter is posted in Scotland you can safety ignore it.
#Post#: 44739--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Scotland - Excel Parking
DIR By: b789
Date: November 9, 2024, 8:25 am
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PoFA will not come into effect in Scotland this year and if the
current pace continues, possible not even next year. There is no
Keeper liability in Scotland.
Excel don't know the identity of the driver unless the Keeper
tells them. Why would a Keeper tell Excel the identity of the
driver? Because they are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree
and don't know any better.
Irrespective of whether the PCNs were Notice to Driver (NtD)
affixed to the vehicle windscreen or postal Notice to Keeper
(NtK), just continue to ignore. They will start sending useless
debt collector letters. Ignore those. We don't need to see of
even know about them.
Eventually, they will give up and go seek someone more gullible
and ignorant of the law to fund their scam. For now, in
Scotland, you are safe from these predators. Don't go trying to
be clever by appealing or responding to the PCNs. Use any debt
collector letters as kindling or to one the bottom af a litter
tray.
#Post#: 44815--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Scotland - Excel Parking
DIR By: McGern
Date: November 9, 2024, 4:13 pm
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Thanks for the replies. It clears up a few things.
I do think this is a genuine case of BS, because it's not like
there was wasn't best intent and effort applied, and in reality
I am not sure even if an another ticket was purchased within the
time (e.g. if the intention was to stay longer than originally
intended) that their dodgy system would be able to account for
that. I read stories about people not paying for tickets based
on the lack of keeper liability, but if certainly not me.
I can't think of any other controlled systems of parking
entry/exit (at least in my recent experience) that don't have
pay on exit e.g. airport, npc barrier entry, where the time of
entry is known and either a ticket was issued and used on exit,
or license was entered on exit, then payment was required.
The only ones that should be pay up front would places where the
start time cannot be determined e.g. parking on street. Even in
those instances, the likes of Ringgo have alerts and the ability
to extend the time remotely.
As this is the first time receiving a notice to keeper PCN, I am
a little nervous, but since I believe there was no wrong done, I
am feeling a bit better about ignoring it.
#Post#: 44851--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Scotland - Excel Parking
DIR By: b789
Date: November 10, 2024, 1:14 am
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Apart from useless debt collector letters, nothing will happen.
Nothing can happen. They rely on the recipients being scared and
paying up, out of ignorance. You are here and cannot use the
excuse of being ignorant.
Whilst there is nothing to stop anyone flouting their
“contractual rules” and simply ignoring any PCNs, I believe
there was a case several years ago where a person racked up many
thousands of £s of PCNs at the same car park. This was not a
good idea as once the amount of alleged debt rose above £1,500,
it became more worth their while to try and pursue a claim
through the Scottish courts.
I don’t remember the precise details of that claim but it would
have been very expensive for the English PPC to make a claim in
Scotland with all the jurisdictional hurdles and still having to
prove that the keeper was also the driver. In short, the case
was proven and, as far as I can remember, it cost the defendant
over £12k for the charges and a finding of unreasonable
behaviour which mean that the claimants costs were also awarded.
For single PCNs, or even multiple ones where the total amount
claimed is under £1,500, it simply is not cost effective for
them to even try to make a claim, even though they’d still have
to prove that the Keeper was also the driver.
You are safe for now, as there is no keeper liability is
Scotland. Continue to ignore and they will give up.
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