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#Post#: 44635--------------------------------------------------
Bailiffs in touch - Reading Council, didn't update V5C - threads
merged
DIR By: Alan
Date: November 8, 2024, 11:59 am
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Hi all,
I received a letter today forwarded from buyers of my previous
property. The letter was from CDER about a £425 charge for a PCN
on behalf of Reading Council, CDER's letter attached here.
I called CDER as its the first I heard about this contravention
(never received the original PCN). We lived at the old property
3 years ago and only learnt today that the V5C was not updated
with my new address. The CDER customer service colleague gave us
a reference number which when entered on Reading Council's
website, I could see that this was genuine PCN and happened on
the 7th Jan 2024 (10 months prior to today). The Reading Council
PCN page states a fee of £115 which has increased to £425 with
CDER getting involved. However when trying to pay the £115 on
the council webstie, the page states I have to contact the
enforcement agents as its too late.
I want to understand if I have a case for not getting the
initial PCN to my new address as I would have immediately paid
the £115 fee. The driving license address was corrected with
DVLA pretty much after we moved but not the V5C. Should I reach
out to Reading Council if I have a case at all?
My concern is CDER go to the courts, which they said they would
do by next week, and my name will be associated to having a case
against me.
Or alternatively should I negotiate with CDER for a lower fee?
or should I complete a TE9 (even though I have no CCJ) that I
have not received the PCN?
or finally, do I pay the fee and then fight my cause with the
Council?
Advise greatly appreciated.
#Post#: 44639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 8, 2024, 12:38 pm
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It's been to 'court' (Traffic Enforcement Centre) and the only
fees the bailiff can add are a disposal of goods fee as it seems
they have charged the visit fee to go to your old address. You
can't get a CCJ.
Post the letter you have blanking only name and address.
It's a legal requirement to keep the logbook up to date. it's
nothing to do with a driving licence.
#Post#: 44642--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Alan
Date: November 8, 2024, 12:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you Stamfordman, appreciate your guidance.
Does that mean my only option is to pay the full £425?
Could I still contact the council that I had not received the
original PCN (or any follow up letters)? or should it be to the
Traffic Enforcement Court by completing the TE9 (non-receipt of
PCN)?
If I do complete the TE9, am I inviting the £1,000 fee for not
updating the V5C?
Finally, was not clear what you meant who to Post the Letter to?
And yes have updated my V5C today.
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 44643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 8, 2024, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
We lived at the old property 3 years ago and only learnt today
that the V5C was not updated with my new address.
You moved when?
Was your property occupied after date of issue of PCN?
Do CDER know where you live now?
Do you still have the car in question?
The largest component of your debt is CDER's fees, £310, so
irrespective of the PCN we need to look at whether you could
avoid some or all of these.
#Post#: 44646--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Alan
Date: November 8, 2024, 1:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> We lived at the old property 3 years ago and only learnt today
that the V5C was not updated with my new address.
>
> You moved when? Moved in early 2022
> Was your property occupied after date of issue of PCN? Yes the
old property was occupied by new buyers when the PCN was issued
so the new buyers kindly forwarded this to me today.
> Do CDER know where you live now? No
> Do you still have the car in question? Yes
>
> The largest component of your debt is CDER's fees, £310, so
irrespective of the PCN we need to look at whether you could
avoid some or all of these.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your assistance, H C Andersen
#Post#: 44649--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Alan link ---
>
> [quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=3807.msg44643#msg44643
date=1731092095]
> We lived at the old property 3 years ago and only learnt today
that the V5C was not updated with my new address.
>
> You moved when? Moved in early 2022
> Was your property occupied after date of issue of PCN? Yes the
old property was occupied by new buyers when the PCN was issued
so the new buyers kindly forwarded this to me today.
> Do CDER know where you live now? No
> Do you still have the car in question? Yes
>
> The largest component of your debt is CDER's fees, £310, so
irrespective of the PCN we need to look at whether you could
avoid some or all of these.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your assistance, H C Andersen
[/quote]
We're still waiting to see the CDER notice.
#Post#: 44652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Alan
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Neil B link ---
>
> [quote author=Alan link=topic=3807.msg44646#msg44646
date=1731092612]
> [quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=3807.msg44643#msg44643
date=1731092095]
> We lived at the old property 3 years ago and only learnt today
that the V5C was not updated with my new address.
>
> You moved when? Moved in early 2022
> Was your property occupied after date of issue of PCN? Yes the
old property was occupied by new buyers when the PCN was issued
so the new buyers kindly forwarded this to me today.
> Do CDER know where you live now? No
> Do you still have the car in question? Yes
>
> The largest component of your debt is CDER's fees, £310, so
irrespective of the PCN we need to look at whether you could
avoid some or all of these.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your assistance, H C Andersen
[/quote]
We're still waiting to see the CDER notice.
[/quote]
Oh, I already attached it in my first post, here it is again.
Thanks
#Post#: 44653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:32 pm
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If that's it then not what we asked for.
Also please see the 'READ THIS FIRST' sticky
#Post#: 44657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Alan
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Neil B link ---
>
> If that's it then not what we asked for.
>
> Also please see the 'READ THIS FIRST' sticky
>
--- End Quote ---
I have read the Sticky, unfortunately, this bailiff (CDER)
letter and the screenshot of the contravention on the council
website that I have also attached, are the only pieces of
information I have access to.
#Post#: 44661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs in touch moving to Court - Reading Council - PCN
contravention bus lane, notice sent to old address
DIR By: Pressman
Date: November 8, 2024, 3:06 pm
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You should contact Reading Council directly, explaining that the
original PCN was sent to your old address due to an outdated V5C
document. Frame this as Pre-action Conduct and Protocol under
Rule 6, inviting the Reading Council to cease enforcement since
the Warrant is "defective" because it lists your old address.
Highlight that you would have promptly paid the £115 if properly
notified, demonstrating your willingness to comply. Set a clear
deadline for the Reading Council to confirm in writing that
enforcement has been stopped. While they may not be obligated to
reduce the charge, providing evidence of your intent to pay may
encourage a favourable outcome.
Is negotiating a reduced fee with CDER feasible?
No, CDER is unlikely to agree to a lower fee, as they are
instructed to recover the full amount now due. Negotiation
attempts typically do not affect enforcement agents' fees once
they are involved.
Should I submit a TE9 form, even though I have no CCJ, citing
that I did not receive the PCN?
No, completing a TE9 form is not advisable here. Submitting the
TE9 would likely result in a new warrant being issued with your
updated address, which would enable CDER to continue enforcement
actions against you directly. The TE9 process primarily benefits
the council by allowing them to restart enforcement with correct
details rather than helping you reduce the fee or contest the
enforcement.
Should I pay the fee now and then dispute it with the council
later?
No, paying the fee at this stage could be regarded as a
voluntary payment, treated legally as a gift, and would likely
limit your ability to recover it. Voluntary payments are
challenging to reclaim, so avoid paying the £425 until you've
fully explored all other options with the council.
As a final measure, since the Warrant states your old address,
it is considered a "defective instrument." If the bailiff
continues to enforce such an instrument, you may seek relief
from the court to halt the enforcement.
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