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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 44563--------------------------------------------------
Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
DIR By: leigh1982
Date: November 8, 2024, 6:20 am
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Hi there everyone, hope someone can help me. I live in England.I
recently got a letter about a speeding infringement. I was going
80mph on a motorway, in a small van (the limit for vans is 60
mph- which I didn't know) So I got a letter about that. Then I
was filmed by a member of the public using my mobile phone to
check messages whilst stationary at traffic lights, so two days
later I received a letter about that with a notice to prosecute.
I currently have 9pts on my license, If I get 3 points for the
speeding offence and 6 pts for the use of the phone that will
put me on 18 pts. I rely on my license for both my jobs,. I
teach apprenticeships and need my vehicle to carry out on site
assessments, and I work as a carpenter, so need the van to get
to work sites, carrying tools and materials. If I loose my
license I would loose both my jobs and probably default on my
mortgage, therefore loosing my home as well. I have spoken to a
solicitor I found online, she says she thinks she can it sorted
before it goes to court, and due to the hardship I will incur if
I loose my license, she thinks she can get me off with an
increased fine and no ban, or a very small ban. She quoted me
£2500 for this. My primary concern is not loosing my license, I
don't have a lot of money but I will find it if it means not
loosing my license. I want to know if the outcome the solicitor
has predicted is correct/likely and if there is anyway of me
reducing my costs. Hope you can help.
Thanks,
Leigh,
#Post#: 44565--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: November 8, 2024, 6:42 am
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--- Quote ---
> I have spoken to a solicitor I found online, she says she
thinks she can it sorted before it goes to court, and due to the
hardship I will incur if I loose my license, she thinks she can
get me off with an increased fine and no ban, or a very small
ban.
--- End Quote ---
I don't know how she thinks she can have it sorted before it
goes to court. The police are unlikely to discontinue either of
the charges at her request and If you reach 12 points the court
has, by law, to impose a six month ban unless "Exceptional
Hardship" (EH) can be shown. There is no possibility of trading
off a higher fine for a reduced ban or no ban entirely. The fine
and points are imposed and then you will be asked if you wish to
make an EH argument. The fine is not influenced by the result of
that argument.
Any hardship you or others might suffer must be "exceptional" -
that is over and above that which any driver would suffer if
banned. Hardship visited on others is likely to carry more
weight. Anybody who is banned will suffer hardship of some sort.
That's the punishment element of the ban. Similarly anybody who
needs to drive either to get to or perform their work will
suffer hardship so losing your job, by itself, is not
exceptional. The court will also expect you to have explored
alternatives if you cannot drive, such as seeking different
employment which does not involve driving. The guidance used
when the court considers and EH argument is here:
When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a
totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the
following:
It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof
that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this
will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence
is given, it must be sworn.
Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court
must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or
hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have
evidence.
Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person
disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the
deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the
preventative effect of the order not to drive.
If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the
risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can
take this circumstance into account.
Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of
exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives
(including alternative means of transport) for avoiding
exceptional hardship are not viable.
Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a
driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment
would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient
to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will
depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences
of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.
You should note particularly the parts I have highlighted.
You should also realise that any solicitor you hire will expect
payment whether they are successful or not.
You have not mentioned much about the offences themselves. I
take it you are not planning to challenge either of them?
#Post#: 44586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: November 8, 2024, 8:08 am
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In addition to the points NJ has already addressed.
--- Quote from: leigh1982 link ---
>
> Hi there everyone, hope someone can help me. I live in
England.I recently got a letter about a speeding infringement. I
was going 80mph on a motorway, in a small van (the limit for
vans is 60 mph- which I didn't know)
--- End Quote ---
I didn't know that either. In fact nobody can know that, because
it's not true.
On ordinary dual carriageways (not motorways) the class speed
limit for goods vehicles is 60, but on motorways the class limit
for goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes is 70.
It would be very helpful to have both charges heard together -
regardless of whether or not you manage to avoid a totting up
ban.
#Post#: 44632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
DIR By: mickR
Date: November 8, 2024, 11:53 am
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as Andy says the Van limit on a motorway is 70 so you would have
got a letter for excess speed (above 70)
I would hazard a guess you have been/will be offered an
awareness course for that infringement as enforcement usually
starts at 79mph
#Post#: 44696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
DIR By: Freecall
Date: November 9, 2024, 2:34 am
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How much you are prepared to pay will depend on your own
personal financial position but the £2,500 figure is quite
honestly, outrageous.
Secondly, do bear in mind that if you do make an EH application
it is not just a question of standing up and convincing the
Bench of your case. You will have to give evidence under oath
and face full cross-examination of your evidence by an
experienced prosecutor in open Court.
#Post#: 44703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeing/mobile phone whilst driving.
DIR By: mickR
Date: November 9, 2024, 4:31 am
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we haven't seen ANY of the OPs paperwork yet so don't ACTUALLY
know what they are accused of.
what is the "letter" from the police??
we're they actually on a motorway or a dual carriageway?? they
have already got things wrong.
this makes a difference to what they will be offered from plod.
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