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#Post#: 44328--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 7, 2024, 3:44 am
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Issuing multiple PCNs like this is vindictive against a resident
and they also had the remedy to impound where storage charges
are cheaper than PCNs.
Southwark will probably say they have no policy on issuing lower
level code 19s but they are signed up to London Councils
guidance like all in London.
Some councils also give grace periods for permit expiry let
alone the lower level penalty.
I would say you could challenge all at formal stage on this
basis but see what others say.
One point - I presume this is an electronic/virtual permit -
this should show up on the CEO's system.
#Post#: 44332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: McDon34
Date: November 7, 2024, 4:08 am
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Hello,
Thank you.
Yes it is a virtual permit.
#Post#: 44354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: JoCo
Date: November 7, 2024, 5:55 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
>
> Some councils also give grace periods for permit expiry let
alone the lower level penalty.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
FWIW Greenwich have a grace period of 1 week. Not seen this
written anywhere (policy etc), but I asked a CEO.
Surprised Continuous contravention not been mentioned.
See London Tribunals case 2110166557 which seems similar.
The authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked
in a residents' parking place or zone displaying an invalid
permit when in Lausanne Road on 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15,
18, 19 and 21 January 2011 at 09.00.
The Appellant's case is that the permit had not been renewed
because they had not received a renewal notice from the
authority. The Appellant and his wife were on holiday from 31
December 2010 until 23 January 2011 during which period the
Penalty Charge Notices were incurred.
I have considered the evidence and I find that the Appellant's
vehicle was parked in a residents parking place displaying an
invalid permit when in Lausanne Road on 4 January 2011. It is
the Appellant's responsibility to renew their permit and they
are not entitled to rely on the courtesy renewal letter, which
may not have been received.
However, I find that the Appellant's vehicle committed one
contravention of parking in a residents' permit bay without
clearly displaying a valid permit when in Lausanne Road on 4, 5,
6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, 18, 19 and 21 January 2011.
I find that one continuous contravention has occurred; the
vehicle remains at the same location throughout the period these
Penalty Charge Notices were issued. Further, I have taken into
account that the residents' bay is operational from 8am to
6.30pm Monday to Saturday and I find that the situation would be
the same if the residents' bay was operational 24 hours a day 7
days a week.
There is no rule of law or regulation that entitles an authority
to issue a penalty charge notice every 24 hours or as in some of
these Penalty Charge Notices less than 24 hours. An enforcement
authority has other powers at its disposal for a continuous
contravention, such as removal.
For the reasons given this appeal is allowed.
#Post#: 44356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 7, 2024, 6:07 am
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That was the view some time ago by one adjudicator and strictly
this isn't a continuous contravention as it would be on a double
yellow line or on footway etc.
I can't see any Southwark policy specific to permit expiry so if
this were to go the tribunal of course continuous contravention
would be added into the grounds as would code 19, failure to
impound.
#Post#: 44376--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 7, 2024, 6:46 am
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The PCNs issued on 2/11, 4/11, 10/11 have been cancelled. (these
should be October as has been observed)
Pl post at least one of these letters(if all the same) otherwise
each one which has a different reason.
They finally saw it on the day before I came back but I was
already in the air at that stage so they weren't able to do
anything about it.
I read 'I' was in the air as 'it'(as in car) hence my confusion
:)
OP, you're waiting for the next notice, Notice to Owner, before
you get a further opportunity to make reps, assuming you're the
registered keeper with a current DVLA V5C address.
#Post#: 44498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: McDon34
Date: November 8, 2024, 2:10 am
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Hi,
I have attached the letter for the cancelled ones. It was the
same for each.
Ah! Sorry! Yes, I was in an aeroplane when my flatmates
discovered the fines.
Yes, I need the notice to owner to arrive and I am the owner and
the registration is current.
Thank you.
Holly
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 44502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 8, 2024, 3:16 am
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This document from Southwark includes the code 19 guidance in
its notes on code 12:
[i]If a previously valid permit has expired then code 19 should
be issued.[/I]
HTML https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s115707/Appendix%202%20-%20Parking%20contraventions.pdf
#Post#: 44585--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 8, 2024, 8:00 am
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10 PCNs.
4 cancelled, apparently for being issued within 24 hours of
prior PCN.
But there aren't 4 that I can see!
1 Oct.... :8.46
2 Oct 10.44
3 Oct 8.44
4 Oct 13.05
7 "" 9.03
8 "" 8.53
9 "" 8.33
10"" 9.26
11"" 12.30
14"" 9.24
I make it the 3rd and 10th only. You posted 2nd, 4th 10th?
Anyway:
For what remains, IMO:
Penalty exceeded the amount applicable....circumstances of the
case.
Permit expired 30 Sept.
All PCNs issued within a 14-day period of expiry i.e. no later
that 14th Oct.
Council's evidence shows that car was in same situation when
each PCN was issued and you assert that it had been stationary
since 30 Sept.
There are 3 distinct circumstances which mean that all extant
PCNs must be cancelled:
1. Continuous contravention
Only a single penalty could be demanded by virtue of the vehicle
being continuously in contravention, this being PCN ***** issued
on 1 Oct. All others are being demanded for a contravention
which has already been penalised.
2. Unlawful penalty charge
All penalty charges are excessive. The authority's power to
demand a penalty arises solely pursuant to London Councils
published schedule authorised by the Mayor of London. However,
this same schedule mandates the lower level penalty when 'Parked
in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone with an
invalid virtual permit or displaying an invalid physical permit
or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of
paid for time' commonly referred to as 'code 19'.
That the previous permit expired on 30 Sept. is a matter of
record, therefore the authority's only defence against these
grounds is that in their opinion and in each case the term
'invalid permit' does not apply. Given that the use of code 19
is mandated by the Mayor of London and prima facie applies to
each PCN then it is the authority's burden to explain by
reference to council policies why they have disregarded the
mandated penalty level in these cases.
3. Cumulative penalties are excessive and unlawful
The Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance makes clear that in
situations such as this case the authority should remove the
vehicle and not issue PCNs ad infinitum. Whether the vehicle was
in contravention or not is not the issue as regards these
grounds(and I should be grateful if the authority's response
would not labour this point), it is whether the authority acted
fairly and lawfully in demanding penalties for each restricted
day and not removing the vehicle at the earliest opportunity.
Some thoughts, OP.
#Post#: 44865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark residents permit expired
DIR By: McDon34
Date: November 10, 2024, 5:25 am
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Hello,
Sorry, there are so many of them I keep getting muddled. I will
absolutely ensure I am not muddled when the time comes to
submit.
Thank you so much HC Andersen and stamfordman. That is much more
cohesive and clear than I could have achieved by myself so thank
you very much.
I will await my notice to owner and construct my letter around
that. If you don't mind I will post again at that point to make
sure I have not misinterpreted anything.
Thanks again!
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