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#Post#: 43718--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: Pressman
Date: November 3, 2024, 6:14 am
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Dear joebloggs90,
If you are dealing with enforcement agencies like CDER and
facing unexpected charges due to address discrepancies, legal
protections under the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007
(TCEA 2007) may assist, particularly where enforcement
procedures have not been followed correctly due to these errors.
Paragraph 66 of Schedule 12 of TCEA 2007 provides remedies for
improper enforcement. While often seen as benefiting debtors,
case law shows broader applicability. For instance, in Goodsell
v Mayhew (1950), the court found that inaccuracies in address
records could invalidate enforcement actions and fees.
Similarly, Ex parte McArdle (1957) concluded that enforcement
actions could be nullified if documents were not sent to the
correct address.
Requesting full documentation from the enforcement agency
ensures transparency and compliance under TCEA 2007. Agencies
must provide clear evidence of the outstanding balance and
justify any additional fees. This documentation helps verify
adherence to statutory procedures, and failure to provide
accurate records may reveal procedural deficiencies that could
challenge the enforcement action.
Outlined below are several steps that may assist in addressing
this situation:
Contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC): You may also
contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC). During the
security check, provide your mother's postcode. Successfully
passing the security check will demonstrate that the warrant
does not reflect your current address, rendering the warrant
"defective" and thereby invalidating any enforcement action
undertaken by CDER at your current address.
Request Full Documentation: Contact the enforcement agency and
request complete documentation to verify the basis of their fees
and the outstanding balance. This will ensure transparency and
provide you with the necessary information to ascertain whether
all procedural requirements have been met.
Contact the Council Directly: Engage with the council and
propose settling the original fine if you missed prior notices
due to address discrepancies. Emphasise that you would have
responded in a timely manner had you received the original
correspondence, underscoring your intent to resolve the matter
responsibly.
Formal Complaint: Should the enforcement agency refuse to
suspend their actions, consider filing a formal complaint. In
doing so, cite TCEA 2007 as well as the relevant case law, such
as Goodsell v Mayhew and Ex parte McArdle. This legal context
can bolster your position, particularly if the enforcement
agency's failure to adhere to procedural requirements is linked
to incorrect address records.
Avoid Direct Payments to CDER: You mustn't make any direct
payments to CDER. If you do so, they may contend that the
payment was made voluntarily, which could undermine any
subsequent claim for a refund. Instead, you must argue that any
funds taken were done so under duress, specifically under the
threat of removal of goods pursuant to a defective instrument.
#Post#: 43811--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 3, 2024, 4:52 pm
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--- Quote from: Pressman link ---
>
> Avoid Direct Payments to CDER: You mustn't make any direct
payments to CDER. If you do so, they may contend that the
payment was made voluntarily, which could undermine any
subsequent claim for a refund. Instead, you must argue that any
funds taken were done so under duress, specifically under the
threat of removal of goods pursuant to a defective instrument.
>
--- End Quote ---
[member=2185]Pressman[/member] assuming the object here is to
get the debt cancelled, rather than simply putting off
enforcement, I'm not sure how this helps? Surely paying avoids
the charges escalating, and would not have any impact at all on
an application to TEC?
#Post#: 44024--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: joebloggs90
Date: November 5, 2024, 3:16 am
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FYI, I have heard back from the council with below. They want me
to fill out a TE9 form and a witness statement to explain the
situation and submit it to tribunal. Once tribunal receive they
will pause Bailiffs and Bailiffs will notify council too, until
a decision is made.
I will have to just play the sorry card and explain the address
issue. If there are any comments about how I should write this
letter please do send them asap as I have a deadline of tomorrow
morning 6am to pay bailiff.
---
Traffic Management Act 2004
Thank you for contacting us.
Your case is out of our hands: the Debt Recovery Agent now have
a warrant to recover the money from you.
We sent you a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) because our camera
evidence shows your vehicle in Mount
Pleasant Road bus lane/gate at a time when only buses are
allowed there. All this evidence is available to view
online.
If you wish to pay or contact someone, contact the Debt Recovery
Agent. They are: Mid Kent Enforcement
Services (MKES) enquiries@midkentenforcement.co.uk or call 01622
602599.
You have stated you didn’t receive the original letters and
weren’t aware that these had been issued but have
now been contacted by our enforcement agents. I can confirm DVLA
provided us your address which all the
required statutory documents were sent too.
Without payment or an appeal, the case has progressed to the
debt recovery stage. Our debt recovery agents
appear to have traced and contacted you. They apply additional
charges to the original penalty.
The only advice we can give is to visit the Traffic Enforcement
Centre (TEC) website (detailed below) and
complete a Witness Statement (Form TE9).
HTML https://www.gov.uk/appeal-against-a-penalty-charge-notice/court-order
The section you need to go to is: “How to challenge”, and
select: “a moving traffic contravention outside of
London if your fine was issued on or after 1 June 2022 - use
form TE9”. Please show evidence that you have
contact TEC to the enforcement agent.
Once TEC receives the TE9, they will ask us to put the case on
hold and issue a Revoking Order (RO). When
we receive the RO, we will re-issue the NtO to the contact
details you provided in the TE9. At that point, the
PCN will revert to the appeals stage and charge level (£70), and
you can either pay the PCN or submit a
formal challenge.
#Post#: 44029--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 5, 2024, 3:47 am
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The council may be being disingenuous, because it is not just a
simple matter of submitting TE7 and TE9. Because you are
requesting to submit a Witness Statement out-of-time, the
council will be informed of your submission, and can object to
it, whereupon TEC reject your submission. So I would contact the
council on their letter as it implies they will not object.
This is the relevant paragraph of their letter: -
--- Quote ---
> Once TEC receives the TE9, they will ask us to put the case on
hold and issue a Revoking Order (RO). When
> we receive the RO, we will re-issue the NtO to the contact
details you provided in the TE9. At that point, the
> PCN will revert to the appeals stage and charge level (£70),
and you can either pay the PCN or submit a
> formal challenge.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 44778--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: joebloggs90
Date: November 9, 2024, 11:58 am
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URGENT ADVICE NEEDED ASAP - PLEASE HELP
Following on from the above thread, I was given a deadline of
6th November to pay CDER. I sent traffic tribunal a TE9 AND TE7
prior to the deadline date and then also sent CDER group an
email telling them that I acknowledge their letter and deadline
however I have taken action to speak to tribunal regarding the
address mishap.
Today, 9th nov, a bailiff went to my mother in laws house and
left a giant red paper saying the bill was now £460 and that
they would clamp and tow the car if found. They gave me a mobile
number to ring.
I freaked out and called the number and spoke to the enforcement
agent this evening. This was probably a bad idea but I was
pretty anxious.
I mentioned the whole situation from the beginning and that I
did not live at the address you are searching and that I have
contacted tribunals etc within the deadline so why are you
looking for me.
I mentioned the logbook was incorrectly addressed to London
which is the cause of the issue. The bailiff said he understood
and believed that I would likely get a refund when TEC read the
statement.
HOWEVER, he has said DESPITE the above, that the car is still on
an active warrant and if found it will be clamped and likely
towed until tribunal come back which could be weeks.
The bailiff now also nows that my V5C is logged to the correct
home address, meaning they can come to my actual house any time
and grab the car on my drive.
I mentioned I wanted to speak to council on Monday, as I had
been advised never to pay CDER group in advance and that getting
monies back is hard.
He said "everyone says that" but in reality if you do pay and
your Tribunal comes back positive, you will get refunded anyway
by the council, if my case is strong, which I believe it is.
He seemed to be nice but I felt like he was trying to guilt trip
me into paying with reverse psychology and now I am highly
paranoid.
He did assure me that I can get refunded on this amount of
council chooses to cancel this after the tribunal respond.
I dont know what to do now. Do I wait until Monday to speak to
council or do I just pay this, get my car off their register,
and then carry on with my case and see if I can get refunded. I
am worried I will wake up tomorrow and go to my drive and the
car is gone.
Please advise asap.
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 45058--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: joebloggs90
Date: November 11, 2024, 11:06 am
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FURTHER UPDATE
I believe I was manipulated into paying CDER group. The
enforcement agent told me that between the time TEC respond
about my appeal and now, my car is still on an active search and
will be towed if found. He suggested it was better to pay the
fine of the latest CDER fine of £424 and then when TEC approve
my case I can get a refund through Council.
In speaking to Council they do not take any liability now that I
have paid.
They said they did not know what CDER group was talking about
regarding this and this is not how it works.
I am now £424 out of pocket and trying to contact TEC on phone
to see if CDER group can issue refunds or I can appeal it.
Unlikely.
#Post#: 45059--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: mickR
Date: November 11, 2024, 11:21 am
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do you own the vehicle out right or is it leased? or subject to
a hire purchase agreement?
#Post#: 45092--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 11, 2024, 1:28 pm
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Can we just go back to reply #12.
After you filed the TE forms did you get an auto acknowledgement
from TEC or anything else.
I'm assuming you submitted via e-mail?
#Post#: 45094--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 11, 2024, 1:34 pm
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--- Quote from: joebloggs90 link ---
>
> Following on from the above thread, I was given a deadline of
6th November to pay CDER. I sent traffic tribunal a TE9 AND TE7
prior to the deadline date
>
--- End Quote ---
Was this perhaps the problem? Traffic Penalty Tribunal has
nothing to do with this process.
#Post#: 45426--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: Neil B
Date: November 13, 2024, 7:05 am
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You've been in on the last two mornings and presumably read my
last two replies.
Is there anything you need to tell us because not all is
necessarily lost?
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