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#Post#: 43581--------------------------------------------------
CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: joebloggs90
Date: November 2, 2024, 4:33 am
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A PCN contravention for driving in a bus lane was issued to Me.
The contravention date was May 2023. A letter was sent in
October 2024 from CDER issuing a letter of enforcement.
The amount is £115 for the fine and a CDER compliance fee of £75
This letter was sent to my mother in laws house which is where I
was staying for a bit last year but I’ve lived somewhere else
all this year. So I haven’t seen any communication until just
now when my wife went to her mums house to get something.
I don’t see any other letters or emails
From the council asking for payment or showing the CCTV
contravention, only have this Bailiff letter which was issued
October 24th giving me a deadline to pay 6th November.
Not sure what’s happened here but what are my steps out of this
before paying anyone anything. I want to first ascertain what
the contravention was and to see proof of it, then I guess I
want to mention that I have not seen any correspondence by the
council, obviously if I had seen it I would not have ignored it.
Thanks
#Post#: 43583--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: roythebus
Date: November 2, 2024, 4:43 am
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Can you post what you have on here then we know what we are
dealing with.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
#Post#: 43597--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 2, 2024, 6:32 am
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What address is on the V5C logbook - that's where the PCN went.
#Post#: 43679--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: Pressman
Date: November 2, 2024, 4:31 pm
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Hi [member=3259]joebloggs90[/member],
Several legislative instruments and regulations substantiate
your position regarding the warrant's defectiveness due to an
incorrect address. Below is a summary of the key legal
frameworks that apply:
Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007
Schedule 12 requires warrants to be properly issued, including
accurate details of the individual and property. Paragraph 66
allows redress for regulatory breaches, benefiting not only the
debtor but also affected third parties. An incorrect address
invalidates the authority to take control of goods, providing
grounds to challenge enforcement.
Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013
Regulation 6 requires that the Notice of Enforcement be sent to
the debtor's "usual or last known address" to provide a fair
opportunity to address the debt.
Regulation 8 states that a warrant must accurately identify the
debtor and goods. Any error, such as an incorrect address,
renders the warrant voidable.
Regulation 10(1)(a) mandates a minimum of seven days' notice
before taking control of goods. An incorrect address breaches
this requirement.
Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014
Regulation 4 states that enforcement fees are valid only if a
valid warrant exists. Therefore, a defective warrant nullifies
any associated fees.
Civil Procedure Rules (CPR)
Part 84 provides for challenging enforcement actions, including
setting aside defective warrants. CPR 84.3 allows individuals to
seek judicial relief for procedural defects.
National Standards for Enforcement Agents 2014
These guidelines require enforcement agents to verify all
procedural information, including addresses. Non-compliance may
invalidate enforcement and lead to liability for damages.
Citing these provisions strengthens your position that the
warrant's defectiveness undermines its validity. This framework
supports actions such as setting aside the warrant or pursuing
damages, thereby protecting your rights.
I recommend reaching out to your legal advisor as soon as
possible to discuss these points in detail and begin the process
of challenging the warrant effectively.
#Post#: 43681--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 2, 2024, 5:03 pm
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None of which changes the underlying fundamentals of the penalty
charge which you've yet to post.
You're in the frame presumably because you were the registered
keeper of the vehicle concerned.
So I haven’t seen any communication until just now when my wife
went to her mums house to get something. :'(
In which case you need to answer the question as per
stamfordman's post: what was the address held on the DVLA
database for the keeper in May 2023?
In addition, when did you live there and if you didn't why did
you declare this as your address for DVLA purposes?
#Post#: 43690--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 2, 2024, 5:54 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I recommend reaching out to your legal advisor as soon as
possible to discuss these points in detail and begin the process
of challenging the warrant effectively.
--- End Quote ---
And it won't be on a pro bono basis will it ?
#Post#: 43698--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: joebloggs90
Date: November 3, 2024, 3:07 am
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Hi All
Thanks for your responses. This is my first time in the forum,
it is great to see such a constructive community here.
The address on the V5C was actually an even older London address
I had which I lived in early 2023. I forgot to change my V5C
when moving address (which I have now done). I appreciate this
is not ideal and just makes the situation more confusing.
Basically between my last official London address and my current
residence, I was waiting for houses to complete and so was
moving around between in laws and my parents house with my wife
so the address situation is a bit all over the place.
The reason I potentially have had the letter sent to my mother
in laws address is that I had another PCN in the same area
(Tunbridge Wells), so possibly the council had the address
details for the reg plate from a previous submission I did where
I may have been staying with my mother and thus used her
address. Otherwise, there is no way they would know that address
as my V5C does not have it. Although I have received a CDER
letter, I do not have ANY correspondence from the council itself
abot the initial contravention asking for payment. I have no
idea where these letters are or where they are sent. When they
didn't hear anything from me on the current PCN, they likely
forwarded it to CDER with the same address I used on a previous
submission (just a hypothesis).
I know it was advised not to do this, but I did contact the
council. If it has made the situation worse then so be it, I
will just clear the current charge. I have told the council that
letters have not been received and as such, I am happy to clear
the original charge with the council on the misunderstanding
explained.
CDER have given me a deadline of 6am on the 6th November to
respond to them. The email below to council was sent yesterday,
and obviously they were closed so I would look to have a call
with them tomorrow morning.
Letter below:
---
Dear Tunbridge Wells Borough Council,
I am writing to request your assistance regarding a Penalty
Charge Notice issued for a bus lane contravention on 6th May
2023, associated with my vehicle registration number *****.
At the time of the incident, I was temporarily residing with my
mother-in-law at ****, Tunbridge Wells. I have since relocated
to a new residence in Mayfield at the beginning of 2024 and have
not returned to my mother-in-law’s house. Consequently, I was
not aware of any correspondence regarding this fine, as I did
not receive any notices sent to the *** address.
Recently, my wife found a letter from CDER Group, dated 24th
October 2024, indicating a total outstanding amount of £189.
This amount includes what I understand to be the original fine
of £114 as well as an additional £75 enforcement fee. However, I
am unclear if £114 is the initial amount or if it has been
adjusted over time due to missed deadlines from prior
correspondence.
I would like to confirm the original amount of the penalty at
the time of the contravention on 6th May 2023. Given that I
missed the initial notices due to the change of address, I am
kindly requesting if I could be permitted to pay this original
contravention amount only, without the added enforcement fee.
Had I been aware of the initial correspondence from the council,
I would have paid promptly to avoid any escalation.
Please let me know if there are further steps I need to take to
resolve this situation and settle this matter as soon as
possible.
Thank you for your understanding and consideration.
#Post#: 43700--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: joebloggs90
Date: November 3, 2024, 3:17 am
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Also, just as an FYI here is the letter I received. I blacked
out my personal details for obvious reasons.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 43701--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: November 3, 2024, 3:25 am
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Wait for others to comment but the usual advice is to pay the
bailiffs to prevent their fees rocketing and then concentrate on
exploring whether or not there are avenues for cancellation,
#Post#: 43703--------------------------------------------------
Re: CDER Enforcement letter sent for PCN - England
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 3, 2024, 3:46 am
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+1 from me.
OP, the enforcement agent wrote to you at your MIL's address
because their other methods of tracing showed that you could be
there. Nothing to do with V5C 'all over the place' addresses.
What address is on the warrant, who knows, probably the one
before the one before your last accurate address.
People move, their circumstances change etc. etc. But it remains
your duty to maintain an address with DVLA where you can be
contacted. In this instance your MIL's address would have
worked. It's not where you are, it's where you can be contacted,
even through a third party.
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