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#Post#: 43340--------------------------------------------------
Boundary Wall
By: Mome Rath Date: October 31, 2024, 10:41 am
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Hello, I am seeking advice please on the best way to proceed
regarding a garden wall problem involving three neighbours.
My elderly Mother's house backs onto two other properties (the
spacing between the houses is staggered). The other gardens are
approx. 1m higher. There is a brick retaining wall along the
whole length of the boundary. On my Mother's side the wall is
approx 2m high. In one of the other gardens is a large tree
close to the boundary of all three gardens. My Mother has a
small patio area with table and chairs by the wall.
During Spring 2023, the neighbour cut back the tree to just
above the top of the wall. However the tree thrived, putting
out vociferous growth and during Summer 2023 the entire length
of wall collapsed into my Mothers garden. By good fortune there
was a cool breeze that day and my Mother was not sitting on the
patio. Her chair was crushed to matchwood.
We cleared the area and most of the bricks could be salvaged for
reuse. The insurance company advised that the damage was not
covered. At an informal meeting with the neighbours we agreed
to split the repair costs equally between the three parties. My
Mother made it clear that she wanted it rebuilt using the
original bricks to be in keeping with the other garden walls.
The neighbour with the tree wanted to rebuild with concrete
blocks for cheapness. So we compromised on a composite wall
with concrete blocks on the neighbours side and bricks on my
Mother's side. The neighbour with the tree was to remove it and
properly grind out the stump to enable the wall footing to be
rebuilt. They wanted to use their own builders for the wall.
The neighbour with the tree is a landlord who manages multiple
properties. They don't live there. It subsequently proved
difficult to get any progress on the tree removal. I eventually
obtained a quote this Summer 2024 for rebuilding the wall and
footings. The bricklayer expressed reluctance to get involved
due to three separate parties, and the quote was high. However
I forwarded this to the neighbours for comment. The next
weekend, workmen for the landlord neighbour turned up and
completely removed the tree stump and roots. A few weeks later,
the landlord and a bricklayer showed up. They dug out the
footings, poured in concrete and rebuilt the wall with concrete
blocks up to approx 1.5m. They did a good professional job.
However, they gave no indication that they would complete the
job by facing with the original bricks on my Mother's side.
The landlord neighbour is now demanding that we pay half the
cost immediately and being vey pushy. (Not a third as
originally discussed. The other neighbour says he was asked to
pay a quarter).
My concern is that the neighbour has changed the original
agreement and done the work the way they wanted without further
discussion. Whilst we are happy to make an interim payment now,
I am not confident that the job will be completed now that the
retaining wall is in place. So we will be faced with the full
cost of the brickwork. It seems reasonable that we contribute
towards a new wall, but this expense was only needed due to the
neighbours unmanaged tree.
I don't want to antagonise the neighbours, but I also want a
satisfactory outcome for my Mother who enjoys gardening. What
would you guys recommend?
Thanks,
#Post#: 43366--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: mickR Date: October 31, 2024, 12:39 pm
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who owned the original wall?
I'm struggling to see why your mum or indeed anyone except the
tree owner should be paying anything? if his tree caused damage
to the wall regardless of whos property it is, then he should be
liable to reinstate the wall to at least the condition before
the damage. if the wall was your mums and was in disrepair he
could counter the claim for betterment.
#Post#: 43379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: Mome Rath Date: October 31, 2024, 1:07 pm
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Hi Mick,
Agreed, but we don't know which party owns the original wall. I
did look through the Victorian deeds, but could find nothing
useful regarding this. How could we find out? The wall was
not in the best condition, although it was definitely the tree
roots which forced it over. This is why we thought a three way
split between the parties would be the fairest approach.
However, the neighbour responsible for the tree is not playing
ball.
#Post#: 43385--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: mickR Date: October 31, 2024, 1:12 pm
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in which case I am still of the opinion he should be paying it
all and possibly seek a contribution for betterment. except.. he
hasn't bettered your mums wall. I would be tempted to tell him
you're not paying anything as you're not liable and in the
position you were before the incident. should he rectify this
you may be inclined to contribute
#Post#: 43543--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: The Slithy Tove Date: November 1, 2024, 12:43 pm
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[quote author=Mome Rath link=topic=3703.msg43379#msg43379
date=1730398020]
Agreed, but we don't know which party owns the original wall. I
did look through the Victorian deeds, but could find nothing
useful regarding this. How could we find out?
[/quote]With a property that old, it's not surprising that the
deeds are vague or silent about ownership of the boundaries. How
long ago did your mother buy the property? In more recent times,
a vendor has to complete a property information form stating (to
the best of their knowledge) who owns/is responsible for the
boundaries. Is there anything along those lines? Did the
solicitor/conveyancer make any statements about it at the time?
(This is all assuming there is any paperwork still around to be
looked at. Maybe I am just assuming everyone is like my late
father who had kept every bit of paperwork from property
purchases decades ago, which does help when now selling.)
#Post#: 43638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: Mome Rath Date: November 2, 2024, 10:30 am
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No such luck I'm afraid. My late Father bought the property in
the 1950's. There is a file full of papers along with the deeds,
but I couldn't find anything about which wall belongs to which
property. We took the pragmatic view that it was shared equally
in order to avoid an argument. But it seems this has not
helped.
#Post#: 43647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: mickR Date: November 2, 2024, 11:45 am
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I still think ownership is irrelevant as he caused the damage.
with the exception of how he finishes your mums side. if he
repairs the wall to a good and safe standard he would have
fulfilled his duty of care which I would suggest is all he is
required to do if he is the owner. if you mum owns it she's
entitled for it to be re finished as it was before.
#Post#: 43787--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: Fluffykins Date: November 3, 2024, 1:18 pm
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Does your mum's property insurance provide legal cover? Might be
a useful route.
#Post#: 43849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: Mome Rath Date: November 4, 2024, 4:30 am
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Thanks, I did check the house insurance. Sadly legal expenses
not covered.
#Post#: 44033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Boundary Wall
By: BertB Date: November 5, 2024, 3:59 am
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Regardless of ownership, I would not be entertaining his request
for 50% of the fees. Their tree knocked down the wall dividing
their garden and your Mum's garden. In what way does that make
your Mum liable for half and the BTL landlord and the other
neighbour 25% each? Other then one of them being a frail older
lady?
Tell him to sling his hook with his request and I believe you
are still, by royal decree allowed the stick your boot up the
hoop of any BTL landlord who starts to get a bit beyond
themselves.
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