DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 2987--------------------------------------------------
Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: habanero
Date: August 9, 2023, 4:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi, all. The driver received a PCN for overstaying by 1 minute
in a parking bay with a permitted parking time of 30 minutes.
Enforcement should be sensitive, fair and proportionate. This is
not the case as the driver received a PCN moments after the
expiry of the permitted parking period. The PCN states a time
first observed, but no time last observed - what about the
5-minute observation period? Would the civil enforcement
officer needed to have recorded the wheel valve positions? Any
help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Google Maps Street View link:
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/tYG1BUnM3s2wUKdA9
PCN:
- Front:
HTML https://ibb.co/w6qVJS9
- Back (1):
HTML https://ibb.co/Kx63jsz
- Back (2):
HTML https://ibb.co/MsLZqTH
#Post#: 3098--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: habanero
Date: August 11, 2023, 12:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Anyone? Would be grateful for any support you can provide.
#Post#: 3112--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 11, 2023, 3:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's certainly a very venal and rapacious PCN for a one minute
overstay. However, the 10 minute grace period that applies in
England from 2015 was not put into law by the Welsh Assembly.
Presumably the car was still parked there from some time after
the PCN was issued.
I suggest you submit reps on the basis of de minimis, but don't
be surprised if they reject these.
#Post#: 3137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: guest179
Date: August 12, 2023, 9:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You can dispense with 'the driver' if it's you. This is owner
liability and if you were the driver then your evidence is
first-hand and any reps submitted would carry more conviction.
If you are not the owner (registered keeper) then I'd keep them
in the loop.
A 30-minute bay suggests high turnover and that it's likely to
be enforced. As stated, there's no 'grace' period of 10 minutes
in Wales and as far as the evidence is concerned and
irrespective of when you parked 14.37-15.08 is more than 30
minutes.
As suggested, asking them to accept that the contravention was
de minimis and that they should exercise discretion would seem
to be your best bet. Don't risk antagonising them by reference
to valve positions unless you know the vehicle was not parked as
alleged, in which case it's 'contravention did not occur' but
you'd need evidence.
#Post#: 3139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: habanero
Date: August 12, 2023, 10:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ugly duckling link ---
>
> You can dispense with 'the driver' if it's you. This is owner
liability and if you were the driver then your evidence is
first-hand and any reps submitted would carry more conviction.
>
--- End Quote ---
Noted. I was erring on the side of caution.
--- Quote from: Ugly duckling link ---
>
> As stated, there's no 'grace' period of 10 minutes in Wales
and as far as the evidence is concerned and irrespective of when
you parked 14.37-15.08 is more than 30 minutes.
>
--- End Quote ---
I understand that the period parked is more than 30 minutes, but
I hoped the PCN could be rendered invalid due to a fatal flaw.
--- Quote from: Ugly duckling link ---
>
> As suggested, asking them to accept that the contravention was
de minimis and that they should exercise discretion would seem
to be your best bet. Don't risk antagonising them by reference
to valve positions unless you know the vehicle was not parked as
alleged, in which case it's 'contravention did not occur' but
you'd need evidence.
>
--- End Quote ---
I will submit an informal appeal today asking for the PCN to be
dismissed on the principle of de minimis.
#Post#: 3239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: habanero
Date: August 14, 2023, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good news - the PCN has been cancelled :)
My informal appeal:
"Dear Neath Port Talbot Council,
I am writing to informally challenge this PCN.
The vehicle was parked in an on-street parking bay with a
permitted parking time limit of 30 minutes. The PCN was issued
for an overstay of 1 minute. Enforcement should be sensitive,
fair and proportionate - I believe this is not the case in this
instance as the driver received a PCN for returning to the
vehicle 60 seconds after the expiry of a period of permitted
parking.
I would like to kindly mention that guidance recommends a
5-minute observation period to check for exempt activity in
relation to parking in a free bay with a permitted parking
period. The PCN states the time that the vehicle was first
observed, but it does not state the time the vehicle was last
observed at the end of the observation period.
I hope you will consider the very close proximity of the timings
and absence of the time the vehicle was observed at the end of
the observation period as grounds for cancellation. Please
kindly exercise discretion and cancel the PCN on the basis of de
minimis (triviality - close proximity in timings). I look
forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully,"
The council's response:
"I refer to the representations made by you in connection with
the issue of the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
I have noted the points raised in your communication.
I would advise you that all limited waiting spaces would usually
have a 5 minute allowance after expiry of time. I can confirm
that this Penalty charge notice has been issue incorrectly and
we will remind the officers to check before issuing the notice.
I am sure you will be pleased to know that your representations
have been accepted on this occasion and the PCN has been
cancelled. I apologise for any inconvenience caused."
Thank you very much for your support!
#Post#: 3248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 14, 2023, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well done, congrats ! So they don't all have hearts of stone in
Neath !
#Post#: 3254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neath Council - Code 30 (Parked longer than permitted) - St.
David's Street
DIR By: habanero
Date: August 14, 2023, 4:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Well done, congrats ! So they don't all have hearts of stone
in Neath !
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you. And apparently not! I was pleasantly surprised at the
outcome.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1