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#Post#: 46867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: pred02
Date: November 24, 2024, 3:07 pm
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Hi,
I received the attached rejection by the council. What is the
next step in the appeal process? Do I have to make an appeal in
person? I am weighting the effort versus paying double jeopardy
for the fine.
Thanks,
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 46871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 24, 2024, 3:32 pm
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Well, it's up to you, but they have sent you their usual Fob-Off
letter that does not address in any way the points made in your
reps. Pay up if you want, but if it were me, I'd be waiting for
the Notice to Owner, and submitting formal reps, and if again
rejected, take them to London Tribunals. If councils decide to
suspend parking they have a duty to sign it adequately. They
failed to do so.
#Post#: 46877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: pred02
Date: November 24, 2024, 4:15 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Well, it's up to you, but they have sent you their usual
Fob-Off letter that does not address in any way the points made
in your reps. Pay up if you want, but if it were me, I'd be
waiting for the Notice to Owner, and submitting formal reps, and
if again rejected, take them to London Tribunals. If councils
decide to suspend parking they have a duty to sign it
adequately. They failed to do so.
--- End Quote ---
I will challenge the ticket. So there is no action for me until
I get the Notice to Owner? Then I can submit the formal rep
online, should I submit anything different that in the informal
rep. Is the entire process online or via post or do I need to go
in person?
The reason I ask is that a few years back I took a big shipping
company to small claims court. At the end, I was succesful but
it was quite painful with different forms needing to be in by
different times and then having to go to court versus a big shot
law firm. Lots of stress!
#Post#: 46878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 24, 2024, 5:21 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I will challenge the ticket. So there is no action for me
until I get the Notice to Owner? Then I can submit the formal
rep online, should I submit anything different that in the
informal rep. Is the entire process online or via post or do I
need to go in person?
--- End Quote ---
Firtly, are you the owner, and hold the V5 Registration
Certificate for the vehicle ? The Notice to Owner is sent to the
name and address on the V5. Is this name and address correct and
up-to-date ?
Your informal reps will need to be beefed-up a bit to be formal
reps, but not by too much. The NtO process is that they send you
it in the post, and you can normally respond on-line. This may
be where it gets more interesting as some council seem to have
totally cocked-up there on-line pages for submitting
representations, but we won't know until we see the NtO.
If you get to London Tribunals, you can register an appeal on
line, and select a hearing or an adjudication on the papers by
an adjudicator. Do NOT select the latter, it is of paramount
importance that you be present. However, no need to trek up to
their offices, as most appeals are done over the phone nowadays.
The councils almost never turn up, BTW. Some contributors here
may offer to represent you on a pro bono basis, as they like to
see the councils squirm.
#Post#: 48913--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: pred02
Date: December 8, 2024, 12:59 pm
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I have now received the Notice to Owner. I need to fill out a
form for making representation. I need to fill out Grounds for
representation, give evidence of detail and submit supporting
evidence.
1. What representation should I select?
- The alleged contravention did not occur
- the traffic order which is alleged to have contravened is
invalid
- there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of
enforcement authority
2. In Section 3, what detail of representation should I include
above amd beyond the informal statement I included above?
3. What additional evidence should I include - e.g photographs
of signs near the parked car with no notice on them?
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 48919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 8, 2024, 2:04 pm
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--- Quote from: pred02 link ---
>
> I have now received the Notice to Owner. I need to fill out a
form for making representation. I need to fill out Grounds for
representation, give evidence of detail and submit supporting
evidence.
>
> 1. What representation should I select?
> - The alleged contravention did not occur
> - the traffic order which is alleged to have contravened is
invalid
> - there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of
enforcement authority
>
> 2. In Section 3, what detail of representation should I
include above amd beyond the informal statement I included
above?
>
> 3. What additional evidence should I include - e.g photographs
of signs near the parked car with no notice on them?
>
> Thanks
>
--- End Quote ---
For 1, select
"alleged contravention did no occur"
and
"there has been a procedural impropriety...etc"
(you are not restricted to a single statutory ground)
For 2
You informal reps, plus "the council in their response to my
informal challenge have totally ignored the points made in that
challenge, thus committing a procedural impropriety of failure
to consider, one of their statutory duties within the relevant
regulations.
For 3
Photographs essential
Others may suggest additional items.
#Post#: 48922--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: pred02
Date: December 8, 2024, 2:58 pm
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Thanks. I see I can make representation online. Happy to send
informal representation plus paragraph above as well as photos
taken the night off showing no signage at 65 and 75. Anything to
add before I submit?
#Post#: 48929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 8, 2024, 4:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: pred02 link ---
>
> Thanks. I see I can make representation online. Happy to send
informal representation plus paragraph above as well as photos
taken the night off showing no signage at 65 and 75. Anything to
add before I submit?
>
--- End Quote ---
Post your proposed text for a review, if you want.
#Post#: 48943--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: pred02
Date: December 9, 2024, 1:47 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=pred02 link=topic=3670.msg48922#msg48922
date=1733691493]
> Thanks. I see I can make representation online. Happy to send
informal representation plus paragraph above as well as photos
taken the night off showing no signage at 65 and 75. Anything to
add before I submit?
>
--- End Quote ---
Post your proposed text for a review, if you want.
[/quote]
I reside in Lambeth and have a resident permit with permission
to park on Bavent Road.
On the day in question, I arrived at my house on Bavent Road,
parked and went to my house at 68 Bavent Road. Neither of the
parking bay signs near my car, which are located at 65 or 75,
had any temporary suspension sign attached to them. A motorist
is entitled to take the parking conditions on the bay sign
nearest to his car on the side where parked as valid.
In view of the failure of the council adequately to sign the
suspension, I request that the PCN be cancelled.
The council in their response to my informal challenge have
totally ignored the points made in that challenge, thus
committing a procedural impropriety of failure to consider, one
of their statutory duties within the relevant regulations.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 49063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road
Code 21
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 9, 2024, 10:36 am
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I live at 68 Bavent Road and hold a residents permit.
The properties in the road are numbered sequentially albeit on
opposite sides i.e. my side runs from 55A to 82(55,56,57..etc)
while that opposite runs from 1-54.
On my side there is a parking place which extends from no.61 to
no.84. Within this the council have placed 3 traffic signs
pursuant to their duty to place such traffic signs in such
positions as the order making authority may consider requisite
for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the
order is made available to persons using the road;
These are situated o/s nos. 61,65 and 75.
On the day in question, I parked o/s no.68, took a glance at the
nearest traffic sign and went to my house. When I returned to my
car I noticed the PCN. I looked around and finally found a
single suspension sign placed o/s no.61. This meant that despite
the suspended area falling between nos. 64 and 74 and there
being 2 traffic signs within or in the vicinity of this area the
council decided to place a single suspension sign outside the
suspended area.
I refer you to the council's regulatory duty above which, as you
should know, continues with 'c)in a case where the order
revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order,
the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the
authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users
by signs being left in the wrong positions.
A suspension 'amends' the application of the traffic order and
yet despite this the council have adopted a lower standard of
signing - one which I assert is not open to them and unlawful-
by placing only a single sign which was not within or in the
vicinity of the area to be suspended.
The responsibility of a motorist is to refer to the nearest
applicable traffic sign(in my case o/s no.65) which I did, and
not to 'traipse the streets' to use a phrase adopted by
adjudicators looking for another which in any event in this case
would simply have revealed an unamended traffic sign o/s no.75.
The council have failed to meet their regulatory duty under
regulation 18 of the Local Authorities' Traffic Order etc.
Regulations and consequently have no lawful authority to demand
a penalty which must be cancelled.
My views on a longer version.
OP, are the specific details correct?
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