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#Post#: 42837--------------------------------------------------
Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: Johnathorn
Date: October 29, 2024, 6:30 am
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Hey good day folks,
I could use a bit of help wrapping my head around something. I
rent out my vehicle to a driver, and for a parking PCN from TFL,
I managed to successfully transfer liability to the driver—easy
enough. But when I tried the same trick for a bus lane PCN, TFL
shot me down. A little digging online tells me this might be
some sort of sneaky legal loophole that maintains registered
keepers be liable for bus lane contraventions regardless of hire
agreements.
Now, here’s where it gets interesting because TFL’s reasoning
has left me in a bit of a head-scratch. I know that, typically,
for liability transfer to work, the hire agreement has to be
under 6 months. But in the notice of rejection I received from
TFL, they stated this:
“You have stated that you are a hire company, and the
contravening vehicle was on hire at the time of the
contravention. Please be advised that The London Local
Authorities Act 1996 does not make provision for the transfer of
liability to the hirer for bus lane contraventions, unless the
hire agreement has a start and end date which covers the date of
contravention and must be for a period of 6 months or longer.
Therefore, we are unable to transfer liability for this charge.”
Wait, what?! For regular liability transfer, it needs to be
under 6 months, but for bus lane contraventions, it has to be 6
months or more? This is some next level type of contradictory
orca sh*t I've not encountered before!
Should I try drafting a new hire agreement that’s over 6 months
with my driver, backdate it, and give it another shot with TFL?
Or is there something else I’m missing here? Any advice would be
much appreciated! Thanks in advance, legends.
#Post#: 42852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 29, 2024, 7:15 am
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Well, sorry, but all traffic legislation in the UK is a complete
Dog's Breakfast at the moment, with parking PCNs coming under
the Traffic Management Act, but moving traffic PCNs coming under
either a London-specific Act, or, outside London, the Traffic
Management Act, (since 2022)
So if the legislation doesn't allow the transfer, that's it !
You need to look at your hire agreement and amend it.
Anyway, here is the Act; have a read.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/contents/enacted
#Post#: 42857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: 666
Date: October 29, 2024, 7:37 am
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--- Quote from: Johnathorn link ---
>
>
> Should I try drafting a new hire agreement that’s over 6
months with my driver, backdate it, and give it another shot
with TFL? Or is there something else I’m missing here? Any
advice would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance, legends.
>
--- End Quote ---
That sounds a bit like perverting the course of justice.
#Post#: 42867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: Johnathorn
Date: October 29, 2024, 8:12 am
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"That sounds a bit like perverting the course of justice."
I think its a perversion of the justice system to force
companies to pay for the mistakes of those who have hired
vehicles from them. Besides since there are two separate laws
that govern the two different PCNs I will just say I have two
agreements drafted one for the purposes of parking PCNs and one
for moving contravention PCNs. Simples
#Post#: 42993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: October 29, 2024, 2:35 pm
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That's the law. I discussed homogeneity with one adjudicator
today after the hearing.
#Post#: 43002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 29, 2024, 3:39 pm
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Why to force companies to pay for the mistakes of those who have
hired vehicles from them.
???
If the hirer could successfully make reps against the PCN, then
why couldn't you. Result, £0 to you.
And if they couldn't:
Then if you could transfer, then the hirer pays the penalty.
Result £0 to you.
And if you couldn't but worded your hire agreements in such a
way that the hirer was liable* then ...Result to you £0.
*- which is the standard BVLRA form of agreement.
#Post#: 43004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: October 29, 2024, 3:49 pm
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The issue is this: the company will force the person who hired
to pay which is against the asinine law.
#Post#: 43005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 29, 2024, 4:07 pm
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?
Hire agreements are contracts and it is open to the hire company
to protect themselves against liability by adopting what are
pretty standard terms.
#Post#: 43111--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of Liability on TFL Bus Lane
DIR By: Johnathorn
Date: October 30, 2024, 6:18 am
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All this legal jargon is a bit overwhelming for me. Can anyone
help clarify whether it’s worth challenging this TFL Bus Lane
PCN, or whether that’s not an option as the law will hold me
responsible despite hire agreement etc? Also, TFL mentioned in
their response that the hire agreement needs to be 6 months or
more to transfer liability in bus lane violations, which is
confusing because usually transfer of liability is done only for
agreements under 6 months. Any advice would be appreciated as
I'm still as confused as I was when I first started this post.
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