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#Post#: 79264--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: PCN ticket
Date: July 2, 2025, 11:04 am
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Please post up a copy of the completed Witness Statement form
that you submitted to the TEC.
(This is already attached at the top but will to it again)
The Adjudicator has stated that the WS was submitted on the
ground that you submitted an appeal to the Adjudicator and had
no response? The Adjudicator says no such appeal was received.
Is that what happened?
(No I have not submitted any to the tribunal only the first one
to TEC)
Did TFL write to you when you asked for a refund? If so, please
post that up. Likewise when they referred the matter to the
Adjudicator did they write to you?
(Yes to both , I attached it hear)
The only option I can see is for you to request a review of the
adjudicator's direction. These are difficult to get and need to
be submitted on time.
PS
The revoking order from the TEC dated 8th October 2024 is
missing from the status history on the TFL website.
Exactly how many Witness Statements and/or Statutory
Declarations did you submit to the TEC?
(The statutory declarations was done by TEC themselves when I
phoned them asked if they received the court order, 2 WS was
done, 1 was by someone who competed it wrong and then one done
again to court the N442 form)
And when? Will post again
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 79301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 2, 2025, 1:19 pm
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OP, I think you're going off piste.
The adjudicator's directions HAVE NO EFFECT as regards the court
direction: the OfR is revoked and the CC is to be cancelled.
'The tribunal cannot look behind the decision of the court'.
In conjunction, you are directed to pay the PCN - which of
course is b****y nonsense because it's already been paid!
So, your liability now is £0
IMO, forget the tribunal and focus your attention on TfL.
I have received the directions of the adjudicator and will abide
by them. I therefore expect TfL to now act upon the decision of
the Traffic Enforcement Centre i.e. to cancel the Charge
Certificate (the Order for Recovery having already been
revoked).
On *** I paid £*** to *** comprising ********. The adjudicator's
directions relate only to the penalty charge and therefore all
other sums paid to TfL must be refunded.
Therefore, within the next 14 days the sum of £***** in respect
of the following must be refunded:
£*** enforcement agent's fees;
£*** court registration fee;
£*** surcharged penalty.
My account details are as follows.......
#Post#: 79591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: July 4, 2025, 9:33 am
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It seems that on the Witness Statement, which you haven't shown
us, that was the subject of the N244 application you ticked the
box that said "I appealed against the local authority’s decision
to reject my representation, within 28 days of service of the
rejection notice, but have had no response to my appeal."
The term appeal, as used here, means an appeal to the
independent adjudicator at the London Tribunals. TFL referred
the case to the Adjudicator who decided that no such appeal had
been submitted. You were then ordered to pay the full penalty
charge amount of £160. So no discount available.
You should have ticked the box on the Witness Statement form
that said "I did not receive the Notice to Owner / Penalty
Charge Notice." Doing so would have resulted in TFL having to
re-serve the (postal) PCN. This you could have challenged or
paid at the discount rate, so £80.
The Witness Statement form should really be clearer, but that's
what we have to live with.
When you write to TFL asking them to refund the fees please make
sure that you ask for all the bailiff fees as well as any TFL
fees and charges beyond the £160 ordered by the Adjudicator. You
could ask for the £275 N244 application fee as well, but I very
much doubt if TFL will agree to refund it.
£75 = Bailiff (enforcement agent) Compliance Stage Fee = Notice
of Enforcement
£235 = Bailiff Enforcement Stage Fee = Bailiff Visit
£110 = Bailiff Sale Stage Fee
£420 = Total bailiff charges
£80 = Charge Certificate 50% surcharge
£9 = TEC registration fee
£89 = Total TFL charges
#Post#: 79601--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 4, 2025, 10:40 am
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I wouldn't push it! TfL are obliged(I think Enceladus was being
polite when he referred to 'ask') to refund all bailiff fees
paid, the TEC registration fee and the amount of the penalty
surcharge. He's separated these into their amounts so I'd get on
with it.
IMO, nobody at this point needs to look behind TEC's decision
and I wouldn't let any communication get near it.
#Post#: 79607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: PCN ticket
Date: July 4, 2025, 12:13 pm
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I did request for full refund on 29/01/25 but not received
anything instead they sent it to tribunal
Please see the letter I sent and the response I received and
advise.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 79610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: July 4, 2025, 12:22 pm
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--- Quote from: PCN ticket link ---
>
> I did request for full refund on 29/01/25 but not received
anything instead they sent it to tribunal
> Please see the letter I sent and the response I received and
advise.
>
--- End Quote ---
There are no dates on these communications?
Is this yr letter of 29/1/25?
What is the date of their response?
#Post#: 79614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 4, 2025, 12:31 pm
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You wouldn't get a 'full refund' if your TEC grounds were 'made
reps but did ot receive response'. As TEC's revoking orders make
clear, 'this does not cancel the PCN'.
Will you please just get back on track. By virtue of the
adjudicator's decision you are due the refund whose components
Enceladus has set out.
Get on with it.
Sorry to be blunt, but this is a out now in the context of the
adjudicator's decision.
#Post#: 79637--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: Mut
Date: July 5, 2025, 2:46 am
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PCN Ticket, your position is now quite straightforward. The TEC
order from 08 October revoked the Order for Recovery and
cancelled the Charge Certificate. That means TfL should not have
retained any enforcement fees or surcharges. The £420 paid to
the bailiffs, the £80 surcharge, and the £9 TEC fee, totalling
£509, are all recoverable.
You have paid the £160 PCN following the tribunal’s decision, so
that part is done. The tribunal does not override the TEC order
and cannot authorise TfL to keep sums beyond the PCN itself.
That is now settled.
Your next step is to write to TfL, refer to the TEC order, and
request a refund of £509 within 14 days. If they do not respond
or refuse, you are entitled to bring a money claim in the county
court for restitution of the unlawfully retained charges. You
may also raise a complaint through their complaints process and
escalate to the Local Government Ombudsman if needed, but the
small claim is the most direct and effective route.
You are in a strong position. Best to now act on it.
#Post#: 79650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: PCN ticket
Date: July 5, 2025, 4:36 am
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I sent this on their website on 29/0/25 and they replied on
07/05/25
Please see the witness statement which was sent to TEC and the
person who filled it in for me tick the wrong box.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 79674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Red route ticket issued by post to old address
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 5, 2025, 6:54 am
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Sorry, but who cares?
The court has decided and the adjudicator has confirmed that it
does lie with him to look behind the revocation order. Neither
can TfL and neither should you.
Where you are now starts with the adjudicator's decision as I
put in my draft.
Get on with it.
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