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#Post#: 43049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: October 29, 2024, 8:38 pm
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Is it the case that the vehicle hirer in the current case is the
same person or entity to whom liability was recently transferred
for PCNs CU67189608 & CU67327869?
For that matter is the same vehicle involved?
As I understand you the hire company maintains two discrete hire
agreements in respect of any given hire of one of your vehicles?
Upon receipt of a PCN one or the other agrrement will be sent
with representations to the Enforcement Authority depending on
the legislation that the PCN is issued under? The hire
agreements will have differing rental periods?
However the bottom line is that you, the hirer, have a Notice of
Rejection in respect of a PCN that the hire company received.
This should be a London Locsl Authorities and Transport for
London PCN.
The options on the table are pay-up or appeal to the
Adjudicator. The Adjudicator can decide if the Hire Agreement
that you provided to Camden is valid or not. You'll be in for
the £130 penalty if you lose.
I would register an appeal. State that you rely on your
representations and that further evidence may follow. Ask for a
personal hearing, you can vary this to a telephone hearing
later. Use the time to research the status of the hire
agreements.
#Post#: 43061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 30, 2024, 3:02 am
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...'I would register an appeal.'....
...+1, assuming of course that this is still an option!
OP, your ability to appeal is time-limited so post the full NOR
and let's see by when your appeal must be registered otherwise
we're blind and you could just be wasting precious time.
#Post#: 43130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: motion
Date: October 30, 2024, 7:53 am
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--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Is it the case that the vehicle hirer in the current case is
the same person or entity to whom liability was recently
transferred for PCNs CU67189608 & CU67327869?
>
> For that matter is the same vehicle involved?
>
> As I understand you the hire company maintains two discrete
hire agreements in respect of any given hire of one of your
vehicles? Upon receipt of a PCN one or the other agrrement will
be sent with representations to the Enforcement Authority
depending on the legislation that the PCN is issued under? The
hire agreements will have differing rental periods?
>
> However the bottom line is that you, the hirer, have a Notice
of Rejection in respect of a PCN that the hire company received.
This should be a London Locsl Authorities and Transport for
London PCN. I plan to appeal to tribunal as i still have 20
days to do so. PS- the driver paid £65 already - can still file
tribunal case?
>
>
> The options on the table are pay-up or appeal to the
Adjudicator. The Adjudicator can decide if the Hire Agreement
that you provided to Camden is valid or not. You'll be in for
the £130 penalty if you lose.
>
> I would register an appeal. State that you rely on your
representations and that further evidence may follow. Ask for a
personal hearing, you can vary this to a telephone hearing
later. Use the time to research the status of the hire
agreements.
>
--- End Quote ---
- Yes same vehicle and same person. Correct, we maintain two
hire agreements, and yes they will have different return dates.
The PCN was from Local Authority CAmden Council - But can the
adjudicator rely on previous PCNs? is it not the case that if
the PCN is paid then the matter is closed? How far back can the
council compare PCNs? is it not just the case of council
treating each case on its own merit? But if i pay doesn't it
mean everytime i send a hire agreement they will compare with
previous PCN, have they now invalidated our hire agreements
going forward - despite us having agreement with hirer
#Post#: 43143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: October 30, 2024, 9:16 am
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--- Quote from: motion link ---
>
> I plan to appeal to tribunal as i still have 20 days to do so.
PS- the driver paid £65 already - can still file tribunal case?
>
>
> - Yes same vehicle and same person. Correct, we maintain two
hire agreements, and yes they will have different return dates.
The PCN was from Local Authority CAmden Council - But can the
adjudicator rely on previous PCNs? is it not the case that if
the PCN is paid then the matter is closed? How far back can the
council compare PCNs? is it not just the case of council
treating each case on its own merit? But if i pay doesn't it
mean everytime i send a hire agreement they will compare with
previous PCN, have they now invalidated our hire agreements
going forward - despite us having agreement with hirer
>
--- End Quote ---
If the discount was on offer when the driver paid the £65 then
the payment would have closed the case. There is probably
wording to that effect on the PCN and/or in the Notice of
Rejection. We can't tell as you have witheld some of the NoR.
You would need to get Camden to re-open the case if you want to
appeal.
If Camden have accepted the £65 as part payment then the hire
company could appeal but if the company lose the company will be
ordered to pay the balance still owing. IE another £65. How or
if you can recover that from the hirer/driver is a different
kettle of fish.
I guess that the most important aspect of this is to get clarity
on whether your arrangements with parallel hire agreements are
legal? I suspect not.
#Post#: 50190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: MrChips
Date: December 17, 2024, 5:32 am
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Not sure where this case has got to in the last couple of
months, but this recent blog post by Mr Mustard seems relevant:
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2024/12/being-cute-turns-expensive.html
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