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#Post#: 42645--------------------------------------------------
Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN london
camden council - please help
DIR By: motion
Date: October 27, 2024, 6:48 pm
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Hi everyone,
We are a vehicle hire firm, and we recently encountered an issue
with a London council rejecting our representation to transfer
liability for a new PCN to the hirer. The council's reason was
that the hire agreement for the current PCN did not match an
agreement related to a past, unrelated PCN (was paid and
closed).
For context, with the hirer’s permission, we provided two
separate hire agreements: one specifically for bus lane PCNs and
another for standard traffic PCNs. This allows us to transfere
liability to the hirer in all circumstances.
This raises a few questions, and we'd appreciate any insights:
Are councils allowed to compare historical PCNs with new ones
and make decisions based on these comparisons?
If a past PCN is closed and settled, shouldn’t it remain
separate and not be referenced in new cases?
Shouldn’t each PCN be considered on its own merit, rather than
being influenced by previously closed cases?
How far back can they go to compare PCNs in this way? Does
legislation permit them to use prior cases as a basis for
decisions on current ones? We could have produced and fixed old
hire agreements..
Thanks for any advice or experiences you can share on this.
#Post#: 42647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: October 27, 2024, 7:09 pm
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Please post up the Notice of Rejection that you received from
Camden.
Instructions for posting documents can be found in the READ THIS
FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of the forum.
At first sight something is amiss. There either is or there
isn't a compliant hire agreement in place. A prior hire
agreement shouldn't have anything to do with the current PCN.
This also sounds like you'll have to appeal the case to the
independent Adjudicator. You, in this case, being the hire
company since liability has not been transferred to the hirer.
#Post#: 42750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: motion
Date: October 28, 2024, 4:04 pm
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THanks. The council is comparing the sent Hire agreement with
previous PCNs
HTML https://i.imgur.com/YxnQJnX.jpeg
#Post#: 42752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 28, 2024, 4:07 pm
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Don't tell us, show us!
#Post#: 42756--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: motion
Date: October 28, 2024, 4:24 pm
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HTML https://i.imgur.com/yFaRqS0.jpeg
#Post#: 42764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 28, 2024, 5:36 pm
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Explain pl.
In what way did the hire agreement in this case cause the
authority to believe that it was not a proper document for these
purposes?
#Post#: 42956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: motion
Date: October 29, 2024, 12:41 pm
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The are saying the hire dates are different - but hire dates are
different because they compared two different hire agreement
from two different PCNs - the hire agreement in question has no
issues on its own merit. It will only be an issue if they
compared with a previous PCN of same car. But what legislation
allows them to compare the two PCNs one closed and paid for?
The hirer raised no objection
For context we keep two Hire agreements one for buslane and one
for normal PCN to allow for easy tranfer of PCNs
#Post#: 42963--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 29, 2024, 1:02 pm
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You've not posted the docs, so at the moment we cannot examine
the point they're making.
As this is the LLA Act you need to post the full NoR because
your next step is either appeal to the adjudicator or pay. You
can no longer dispute this with the council.
And leave in all dates pl.
#Post#: 42966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: catnip
Date: October 29, 2024, 1:17 pm
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--- Quote from: motion link ---
>
> For context we keep two Hire agreements one for buslane and
one for normal PCN to allow for easy tranfer of PCNs
>
--- End Quote ---
How does this work, does the customer not sign the agreement
when hiring, or do you get them to sign both documents?
#Post#: 42967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Transfer of liability rejection based on historical PCN
london camden council - please help
DIR By: MrChips
Date: October 29, 2024, 1:20 pm
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I'm not sure the rejection is based on specific legislation OP.
I think the authority just thinks it is smelling a rat and has
decided to reject on this basis.
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