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#Post#: 58181--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mang0
Date: February 14, 2025, 7:35 pm
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Ugh, so... Not surprisingly, they have rejected.
HERE
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BWKHg8GLptQh-o0TMwYk39QAXQGh1kqe/view?usp=drivesdk<br
/>is their response.
I think this one is probably a lost cause, unless anyone has any
other suggestions!
#Post#: 58198--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 15, 2025, 4:25 am
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As the video (which is their primary evidence) shows, you were
stationary on a red route at the time of the alleged
contravention.
The burden falls to you to establish a legitimate reason. IMO,
'circumstances beyond your control..' is all that's available,
but you weren't broken down etc, therefore you would need to
show that you were unable to move forward. Clearly, if you were
in a line of stationary vehicles in the traffic lane then this
could be argued(it's what the exemption addresses).
But IMO you weren't because the traffic was moving past and
beyond you.
As regards the contravention, I cannot see a probable defence.
As regards enforcement propriety, the NOR does not comply with
the regulations in that:
The statutory period which must elapse before the authority may
serve a charge certificate and which must be given in the NOR
has been misstated;
Similarly, the statutory 28-day period during which you may make
an appeal has been misstated,
In both cases it's 28 days beginning on the date of service;
Furthermore, the NOR omits reference to the adjudicator's power
to register an appeal after the expiry of the 28-day period.
A procedural impropriety means a failure by an enforcement
authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by[in this
case]:
(a)
(b)
(c)these [the 2022 Appeals] Regulations.
'Procedural impropriety' is grounds for appeal.
Wait for others.
Pl post 'the enclosed form' referred to in the NOR. I doubt that
this gives the correct info and in any event even if it did you
would have 2 sets of contradictory instructions. I also doubt
that the form would be included in the authority's evidence at a
hearing and therefore the NOR would stand on its own.
#Post#: 58219--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mang0
Date: February 15, 2025, 6:43 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> [snipped]
>
> Wait for others.
>
> Pl post 'the enclosed form' referred to in the NOR. I doubt
that this gives the correct info and in any event even if it did
you would have 2 sets of contradictory instructions. I also
doubt that the form would be included in the authority's
evidence at a hearing and therefore the NOR would stand on its
own.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi @HC. Thanks for your comprehensive response - yes, I agree
with your assessment that it's pretty difficult to make a
legitimate argument in my favour here.
The form you have mentioned is in the same document - it's page
6 of the PDF onwards. I haven't received a separate document or
anything by post yet, just that one document via email.
I'm also aware that given what they've stated in the letter
(rightly or wrongly!) they have given me up until the 25th
February to make payment at the 'discounted' fee.
#Post#: 58286--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 15, 2025, 12:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Payment of a discounted sum is not a matter for the regulations,
it's therefore not an issue here.
The enclosed form simply reinforces the errors in the NOR.
Also, IMO even if, and I think it's a big IF, the enclosed form
was considered to be part of the NOR it does not include the
mandated regulatory information.
A procedural impropriety is not some form of 2nd division
grounds of appeal when compared with 'the contravention did not
occur', it's on a par.
I would carry on, but it's your choice.
Hopefully others will comment.
#Post#: 58650--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mang0
Date: February 17, 2025, 4:04 pm
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> A procedural impropriety is not some form of 2nd division
grounds of appeal when compared with 'the contravention did not
occur', it's on a par.
>
> I would carry on, but it's your choice.
>
> Hopefully others will comment.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks HC. Interesting point - I wouldn't mind carrying on, but
I don't have the knowledge to word a representation strongly
enough for that myself, so I'll wait and see if there are any
further suggestions otherwise I think I'll have to suck it up
and pay. I'm also limited on time currently as my motorbike has
since been stolen (total side story, nicked off the street in
London) so I am busy sorting insurance, police reports, new
bikes/updates and all the rest. It never rains, but it pours!
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