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#Post#: 52989--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 11, 2025, 2:10 pm
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Looking at the video, you popped over that broad white line into
a cycle lane. As far as I know these are not to be used by
motortraffic, but they haven't whalloped you for that, but for
stopping on a red route. I suppose this is also valid, but you
could say that you were 'in traffic' because all the other
traffic there is stopped as well.
However, I suspect it is the hazard lights and your activities
when stopped which argue against the 'in traffic' argument. This
is a difficult one, so see what others say.
#Post#: 52990--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 11, 2025, 2:19 pm
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what doesn't help is that the other traffic moves off including
the delivery bike with a big box on the back.
#Post#: 52993--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 11, 2025, 3:49 pm
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OP, let's be candid about the objective evidence.
You weren't stuck behind the lorry. You deliberately moved from
the traffic lane, which admittedly wasn't moving, to behind the
parked lorry - probably because it was unloading and therefore
was going to give you cover for a couple of minutes to allow you
to do whatever it was you were doing.
Maybe you thought...blow it, if I'm stuck in this traffic so
I'll see what alternative routes my satnav will give me. I don't
know, but an adjudicator would see what's clear.
I suggest you change tack and say that as the traffic wasn't
moving I decided to pull across to *****. Although the video
doesn't show me moving back into the traffic lane I did so
immediately adter the video stops in order to *****.
#Post#: 53010--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mang0
Date: January 11, 2025, 6:33 pm
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Thank you all for the responses - and @HC I appreciate the
candidness, as it is always more difficult to be totally
objective and unbiased towards your own situation.
I feel that ultimately the reality is a combination of
everything that has been mentioned. I would not have stopped if
the lorry hadn't been parked there as I would have been able to
continue down the road. But as it was, and it was standstill
traffic to my right, I made the decision not try try and
manouvre my bike through ([member=75]mickR[/member] I totally
understand your point, although my motorbike is a lot heavier
and less manouvreable in tight traffic than a delivery moped!)
and instead to sit behind the lorry for a moment and re-assess
to see if there was an alternative route. The most annoying part
is I actually did pull back out into the traffic and continue in
that direction, so it was a totally useless exercise anyway!
I'll see if any others have any futher suggestions before I
draft a challenge which I will post here before submitting. If
it fails and the fine stands, then I can understand that it was
a poor judgement call from me. I suppose the irony of the
situation is that I stopped there to avoid being in the way of
other road users (cyclists, mopeds etc that you see in the
video) while sorting navigation, but have been penalised for
what is essentially causing an obstruction by stopping on a red
route. But hey we all make bad calls sometimes so perhaps this
is one of those instances.
#Post#: 53049--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: January 12, 2025, 7:22 am
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I think anybody viewing that video objectively would conclude
that you were stopped from at least around the one minute mark
when the queue of traffic you had been in started to move off
around you leaving you stationary. And it's at that point that
the camera zooms in on you.
It could even be argued that you were stopped (and showed your
intention to do so) earlier when you pulled out of traffic into
the cycle lane behind the truck and stopped at around the 51
seconds mark.
I don't think your reason for pulling in behind the truck - to
reset your GPS - helps you. It shows that you intended to stop
and you did so.
That's not to say that you don't have a technical argument
against the wording of the PCN or against TFL's procedures, but
nobody has yet pointed anything out
#Post#: 53051--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 12, 2025, 7:30 am
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not to mention putting on the hazard flashers as if it's going
to absolve you from any restriction. it does in fact weaken your
case.
#Post#: 53062--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 12, 2025, 9:08 am
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OP, your PCN scan is low quality and I cannot see the times on
the embedded photos. However, the Everfresh van is still behind
you and by cross referencing this to the video shows that they
must show 14.14 if not 14.13 and not 14.15, the time of the
alleged contravention.
Pl confirm.
#Post#: 55177--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mang0
Date: January 26, 2025, 9:49 am
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Apologies for delayed reply, have been away with work.
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, your PCN scan is low quality and I cannot see the times on
the embedded photos. However, the Everfresh van is still behind
you and by cross referencing this to the video shows that they
must show 14.14 if not 14.13 and not 14.15, the time of the
alleged contravention.
>
> Pl confirm.
>
--- End Quote ---
I can confirm that the images (link to higher quality HERE) on
the PCN are from 10:14:01 and 10:14:04. The video does show 9
seconds of 10:15 right at the end. (10:15:00-09)
I suppose it is a gamble, but perhaps my best option is
something as follows. Any alterations or amendments would be
appreciated.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to represent against this PCN issued on Tooting
High Street SW17.
I acknowledge that the images provided by TfL show my motorcycle
stationary for a short period. However, I was not parked and my
engine remained running.
At the time of the alleged contravention, I was travelling down
Tooting High Street when I encountered significant traffic
congestion due to roadworks and a large lorry stationary at the
side of the road, blocking a significant amount of the nearside
lane. This obstruction prevented me from moving forward. Due to
the size and weight of my motorcycle, lane splitting was not a
safe or feasible option in these congested conditions. I used
this brief pause to move out of the way of any cyclists/couriers
without causing any additional disruption, and to re-plan my GPS
route due to the unexpected obstruction before resuming my
journey.
I would also like to point out that time of the alleged
contravention is listed on the PCN as 10:15. However the images
provided by TfL are time-stamped at 10:14. I requested footage
which arrived on DVD, which only contains 9 seconds of the
minute of 10:15. It does not show when I moved off and continued
along the road. This discrepancy suggests that the stop was very
brief and that I resumed my journey shortly after.
I understand the importance of maintaining the free flow of
traffic on red routes. However, I believe the circumstances in
this instance warrant the cancellation of this PCN.
I request that TfL review this matter and consider canceling the
PCN.
Best,
#Post#: 55628--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: mang0
Date: January 28, 2025, 1:25 pm
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I realise it's a long shot - but unless anyone has any other
thoughts, I'll submit the above later tonight...
#Post#: 55670--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - TFL - Code 46 Stopped where prohibited but stuck
behind lorry - Tooting
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 28, 2025, 5:57 pm
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--- Quote from: mang0 link ---
>
> I realise it's a long shot - but unless anyone has any other
thoughts, I'll submit the above later tonight...
>
--- End Quote ---
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, so bang it in !
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