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#Post#: 42210--------------------------------------------------
Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop off)
South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: teatree04
Date: October 24, 2024, 4:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I was surprised to receive a charge certificate from Havering
council saying a PCN was issued and I failed to respond (I've
checked my letters and can't find any PCN being received - I
would have probably paid promptly). The letter says I didn't
appeal and the fine has been raised to £195 from £130.
It doesn't specify the alleged contravention, but looking at the
date and location, I was dropping off a friend at Romford train
station after a wedding where they didn't have transport. I
couldn't find a safe entry route where the google maps indicated
was the location (bearing in mind this was a lone female in the
dark) so I drove round to the front and stopped near the
entrance to drop her off to the station. I don't recall seeing
any signage preventing me from doing this so this has all come
as a surprise (especially as the first notification I received
of this was last weekend).
I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still appeal
this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter how can
I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as opposed
to £195?
Thank you in advance for your kind assistance.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/6cIo1OY.jpeg
#Post#: 42226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 24, 2024, 6:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still
appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter
how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as
opposed to £195?
--- End Quote ---
It's very simple, but from now on you must be proactive, because
the next stage is the council must register the debt, (the £195)
at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of court. but NOT a
County Court as they say on the CC). This adds £10 onto the £195
giving £205. The council then send you an Order for Recovery
for the amount. At this stage you can then submit a Statutory
Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN. The matter is then
reverted back to the PCN stage at which point you can pay it or
submit representations.
You only have a fixed number of days to submit the SD, so it is
important to now check, after the period for payment on the CC
has expired, to contact the TEC at about weekly intervals to
find out whether the debt has been registered. Alternatively,
if Havering have a webpage that shows you the current stage of
the PCN and the amount outstanding, when that amount shows as
£205 you can submit an SD without needing to receive the paper
Order for Recovery. You can download the SD form from this
website: -
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
For a London moving traffic offence PCN, the form is PE3. Do
note that you are not the "applicant", which is Havering
Council; you are the Respondent.
#Post#: 42240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 25, 2024, 1:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
+1
You will also find the FTLA in-house guide here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/msg37547/#new
You've obscured the name of the Act -I think I've got the right
guide. but if not, the other guides are here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
#Post#: 42251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: teatree04
Date: October 25, 2024, 3:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote]I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can
still appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial
letter how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower
amount as opposed to £195?
--- End Quote ---
It's very simple, but from now on you must be proactive, because
the next stage is the council must register the debt, (the £195)
at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of court. but NOT a
County Court as they say on the CC). This adds £10 onto the £195
giving £205. The council then send you an Order for Recovery
for the amount. At this stage you can then submit a Statutory
Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN. The matter is then
reverted back to the PCN stage at which point you can pay it or
submit representations.
You only have a fixed number of days to submit the SD, so it is
important to now check, after the period for payment on the CC
has expired, to contact the TEC at about weekly intervals to
find out whether the debt has been registered. Alternatively,
if Havering have a webpage that shows you the current stage of
the PCN and the amount outstanding, when that amount shows as
£205 you can submit an SD without needing to receive the paper
Order for Recovery. You can download the SD form from this
website: -
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
For a London moving traffic offence PCN, the form is PE3. Do
note that you are not the "applicant", which is Havering
Council; you are the Respondent.
[/quote]
Thanks for the response, this is really helpful. So I need to
start chasing after the 14 days is up for the debt to be
registered at the TEC. Then I can submit the SD and that's what
can reset it to the initial time period?
#Post#: 42252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: teatree04
Date: October 25, 2024, 3:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> +1
> You will also find the FTLA in-house guide here:
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/msg37547/#new
>
> You've obcsured the name of the Act -I think I've got the
right guide. but if not, the other guides are here
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for this and sharing the link to the guide. I think I
understand what to do now. It seems like an inefficient process
where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them
know I didn't receive the original PCN
#Post#: 42254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 25, 2024, 3:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be
increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the
original PCN
--- End Quote ---
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
becomes very messy and expensive.
#Post#: 42257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 25, 2024, 3:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
receive the original PCN
--- End Quote ---
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
becomes very messy and expensive.
[/quote]
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the
now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at
TEC, not before.
#Post#: 42290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: teatree04
Date: October 25, 2024, 7:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
receive the original PCN
--- End Quote ---
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
becomes very messy and expensive.
[/quote]
Thank you for this, that's super helpful to know it's automatic.
By the way, I didn't obscure the act on purpose, I'd (wrongly)
assumed that part of the letter wasn't required when I took the
pic. I know for next time now thanks again!
#Post#: 42291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: teatree04
Date: October 25, 2024, 7:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3588.msg42254#msg42254
date=1729844597]
> [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
receive the original PCN
--- End Quote ---
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
becomes very messy and expensive.
[/quote]
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the
now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at
TEC, not before.
[/quote]
Thanks for confirming, much obliged :)
#Post#: 45274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
DIR By: teatree04
Date: November 12, 2024, 11:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: teatree04 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=3588.msg42257#msg42257
date=1729845225]
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3588.msg42254#msg42254
date=1729844597]
> [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
receive the original PCN
--- End Quote ---
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
becomes very messy and expensive.
[/quote]
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the
now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at
TEC, not before.
[/quote]
Thanks for confirming, much obliged :)
[/quote]
I've been chasing this with the TEC since last week and still
nothing. I've completed my statutory declaration which I hope to
get signed at the court this week. They keep telling me to
contact the council when I eventually speak to the TEC but from
what I see that's not the play at this stage
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