URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 42210--------------------------------------------------
       Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop off)
       South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: teatree04
       Date: October 24, 2024, 4:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I was surprised to receive a charge certificate from Havering
       council saying a PCN was issued and I failed to respond (I've
       checked my letters and can't find any PCN being received - I
       would have probably paid promptly). The letter says I didn't
       appeal and the fine has been raised to £195 from £130.
       It doesn't specify the alleged contravention, but looking at the
       date and location, I was dropping off a friend at Romford train
       station after a wedding where they didn't have transport. I
       couldn't find a safe entry route where the google maps indicated
       was the location (bearing in mind this was a lone female in the
       dark) so I drove round to the front and stopped near the
       entrance to drop her off to the station. I don't recall seeing
       any signage preventing me from doing this so this has all come
       as a surprise (especially as the first notification I received
       of this was last weekend).
       I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still appeal
       this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter how can
       I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as opposed
       to £195?
       Thank you in advance for your kind assistance.
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/6cIo1OY.jpeg
       #Post#: 42226--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: October 24, 2024, 6:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still
       appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter
       how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as
       opposed to £195?
       --- End Quote ---
       It's very simple, but from now on you must be proactive, because
       the next stage is the council must register the debt, (the £195)
       at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of court. but NOT a
       County Court as they say on the CC). This adds £10 onto the £195
       giving £205.  The council then send you an Order for Recovery
       for the amount. At this stage you can then submit a Statutory
       Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN. The matter is then
       reverted back to the PCN stage at which point you can pay it or
       submit representations.
       You only have a fixed number of days to submit the SD, so it is
       important to now check, after the period for payment on the CC
       has expired, to contact the TEC at about weekly intervals to
       find out whether the debt has been registered.  Alternatively,
       if Havering have a webpage that shows you the current stage of
       the PCN and the amount outstanding, when that amount shows as
       £205 you can submit an SD without needing to receive the paper
       Order for Recovery. You can download the SD form from this
       website: -
  HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
       For a London moving traffic offence PCN, the form is PE3.  Do
       note that you are not the "applicant", which is Havering
       Council; you are the Respondent.
       #Post#: 42240--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: October 25, 2024, 1:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       +1
       You will also find the FTLA in-house guide here:
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/msg37547/#new
       You've obscured the name of the Act -I think I've got the right
       guide. but if not, the other guides are here
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
       #Post#: 42251--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: teatree04
       Date: October 25, 2024, 3:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > [quote]I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can
       still appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial
       letter how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower
       amount as opposed to £195?
       --- End Quote ---
       It's very simple, but from now on you must be proactive, because
       the next stage is the council must register the debt, (the £195)
       at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of court. but NOT a
       County Court as they say on the CC). This adds £10 onto the £195
       giving £205.  The council then send you an Order for Recovery
       for the amount. At this stage you can then submit a Statutory
       Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN. The matter is then
       reverted back to the PCN stage at which point you can pay it or
       submit representations.
       You only have a fixed number of days to submit the SD, so it is
       important to now check, after the period for payment on the CC
       has expired, to contact the TEC at about weekly intervals to
       find out whether the debt has been registered.  Alternatively,
       if Havering have a webpage that shows you the current stage of
       the PCN and the amount outstanding, when that amount shows as
       £205 you can submit an SD without needing to receive the paper
       Order for Recovery. You can download the SD form from this
       website: -
  HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
       For a London moving traffic offence PCN, the form is PE3.  Do
       note that you are not the "applicant", which is Havering
       Council; you are the Respondent.
       [/quote]
       Thanks for the response, this is really helpful. So I need to
       start chasing after the 14 days is up for the debt to be
       registered at the TEC. Then I can submit the SD and that's what
       can reset it to the initial time period?
       #Post#: 42252--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: teatree04
       Date: October 25, 2024, 3:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
       >
       > +1
       > You will also find the FTLA in-house guide here:
       >
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/msg37547/#new
       >
       > You've obcsured the name of the Act -I think I've got the
       right guide. but if not, the other guides are here
       >
       >
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Thank you for this and sharing the link to the guide. I think I
       understand what to do now. It seems like an inefficient process
       where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them
       know I didn't receive the original PCN
       #Post#: 42254--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: October 25, 2024, 3:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be
       increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the
       original PCN
       --- End Quote ---
       Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
       and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
       correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
       becomes very messy and expensive.
       #Post#: 42257--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: October 25, 2024, 3:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
       >
       > [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
       to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
       receive the original PCN
       --- End Quote ---
       Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
       and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
       correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
       becomes very messy and expensive.
       [/quote]
       Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the
       now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
       OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at
       TEC, not before.
       #Post#: 42290--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: teatree04
       Date: October 25, 2024, 7:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
       >
       > [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
       to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
       receive the original PCN
       --- End Quote ---
       Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
       and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
       correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
       becomes very messy and expensive.
       [/quote]
       Thank you for this, that's super helpful to know it's automatic.
       By the way, I didn't obscure the act on purpose, I'd (wrongly)
       assumed that part of the letter wasn't required when I took the
       pic. I know for next time now thanks again!
       #Post#: 42291--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: teatree04
       Date: October 25, 2024, 7:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3588.msg42254#msg42254
       date=1729844597]
       > [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
       to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
       receive the original PCN
       --- End Quote ---
       Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
       and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
       correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
       becomes very messy and expensive.
       [/quote]
       Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the
       now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
       OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at
       TEC, not before.
       [/quote]
       Thanks for confirming, much obliged  :)
       #Post#: 45274--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Havering, code 52M (1st letter not received - presume drop
       off) South St RM1/Easern Rd RM1, Romford train Station
   DIR By: teatree04
       Date: November 12, 2024, 11:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: teatree04 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=3588.msg42257#msg42257
       date=1729845225]
       > [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3588.msg42254#msg42254
       date=1729844597]
       > [quote]It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has
       to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't
       receive the original PCN
       --- End Quote ---
       Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN
       and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed
       correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it
       becomes very messy and expensive.
       [/quote]
       Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the
       now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
       OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at
       TEC, not before.
       [/quote]
       Thanks for confirming, much obliged  :)
       [/quote]
       I've been chasing this with the TEC since last week and still
       nothing. I've completed my statutory declaration which I hope to
       get signed at the court this week. They keep telling me to
       contact the council when I eventually speak to the TEC but from
       what I see that's not the play at this stage
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 7
   DIR Next Page