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#Post#: 42115--------------------------------------------------
Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: JohnBravo
Date: October 23, 2024, 6:37 pm
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Hi All,
I hope you are well.
I have received the below from the council. It says about being
in a bus lane but according to the location there is no bus lane
but a bus stop with worn out signage on tramac.
HTML https://ibb.co/sFkQsgV
HTML https://ibb.co/GkgcPcP
HTML https://ibb.co/GTqHDfJ
HTML https://ibb.co/njJcdXQ
HTML https://ibb.co/PgvZxXC
The location in Google maps:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9227776,-1.47476,3a,75y,3.52h,75.29t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sq3dgXhf6Q3sxPGri_VT9ZQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D14.712660365192619%26panoid%3Dq3dgXhf6Q3sxPGri_VT9ZQ%26yaw%3D3.5183737440745966!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyMS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Please advise.
#Post#: 42128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: RichardW
Date: October 24, 2024, 4:47 am
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Appears to have been restricted to busses only 7am - 7pm Mon -
Sat since 2021:
HTML https://www.derby.gov.uk/transport-and-streets/parking-in-derby/penalty-charge-notices/challenge-penalty-charge-notice/driving-down-bus-lane/
There may be other flaws in the PCN, or signage if you can get
up to date photos.
#Post#: 42132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: JohnBravo
Date: October 24, 2024, 5:19 am
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I mean this is some sort of a joke.
Cars are coming from a roundabout.
How the cars supposed to drive on the inside of a roundabout not
to cross on that?
It looks like another clever way for the council to make money.
They have money for the cameras but not for the paint.
The road markings are visible in 40%.
The central line is like visible in 15%.
In the past I had a PCN cancelled by an adjudicator due to
markings being worn out.
Unfortunately I am not from the area to go there and to take
more pictures / risk more tickets.
From their pictures it looks nothing has changed/improved and
it's the same what's at Google Maps.
#Post#: 42133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 24, 2024, 5:26 am
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Please re-instate date of contravention and PCN number.
Here is a more recent GSV (2023)
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/SfMjHgnc6UghWBaF9
you presumably passed these blue signs and the legend on the
road on leaving the roundabout?
Which way did you enter the roundabout? Are there any advance
signs on the route you took?
Please post up the video here, which is the evidence. There may
be errors in the camera certification or, as Richard said, in
the small print of the PCN.
#Post#: 42173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: JohnBravo
Date: October 24, 2024, 9:44 am
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This looks like council's money making machine.
Do you want me to publish the PCN number and the date?
I left the roundabout. I don't remember where I entered the
roundabout but does this make any difference to the fact their
BUS LANE bit is on the way when leaving a roundabout?
From your Google street view you can see that the driver has to
drive towards the island to drive around this or he/she will
cross the centre line.
You can also see how bad the paint job is on the one in question
comparing to the one on the opposite side of the road.
I don't know how to download this footage. I was able to
download it from other websites in the past but their website is
designed to make it hard.
HTML https://www.derby.gov.uk/transport-and-streets/parking-in-derby/penalty-charge-notices/
#Post#: 42183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 24, 2024, 10:58 am
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Put your PCN number and the webcode and one of the experts here
( [member=2249]stamfordman[/member] ?) should be able to post
the video for you.
--- Quote ---
>
> I left the roundabout. I don't remember where I entered the
roundabout but does this make any difference
>
--- End Quote ---
If we know your approach to the roundabout we can look on GSV
for advance warning signs (if there was one on the route you
took).
#Post#: 42188--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: JohnBravo
Date: October 24, 2024, 11:50 am
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Thanks for you help so far.
I think I entered it from the Tennant Street which is the
previous exit.
07/10/2024
DR43048134
702QM864
#Post#: 42190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 24, 2024, 12:08 pm
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There appears to be no advance warning sign on Tennant Street
nor any other approach road except Morledge which has this:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/LvaSo97NFXiHCJUz8
#Post#: 42191--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: d612
Date: October 24, 2024, 12:37 pm
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Tennat Street looks like being a strange road which is actually
just a back entrance to a shopping mall plaza from following it
on street view. So it seems unlikely that the OP entered the
roundabout from there.
#Post#: 42197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane - Derby City Council - Corporation Street
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 24, 2024, 1:13 pm
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The PCN is complete pants ! The Representations page refers to
the wrong regulations, and also omits two of the statutory
grounds for an appeal.
Here are the correct regulations: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/contents
Regulation 5 gives the statutory grounds of appeal: -
--- Quote ---
> (4) The grounds mentioned in paragraph (2)(b)(i) are—
>
> (a)the alleged contravention did not occur;
>
> (b)the recipient—
>
> (i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question,
>
> (ii)had ceased to be its owner before the alleged
contravention occurred, or
>
> (iii)became its owner after the alleged contravention
occurred;
>
> (c)at the time that the alleged contravention occurred, the
vehicle in question was in the control of a person who did not
have the consent of the owner;
>
> (d)the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm and—
>
> (i)the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from
that firm under a hiring agreement, and
>
> (ii)the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability
acknowledging their liability in respect of any penalty charge
notice served in respect of any relevant road traffic
contravention involving the vehicle during the currency of the
hiring agreement;
>
> (e)the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the
circumstances of the case;
>
> (f)there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the
enforcement authority;
>
> (g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in
relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order
to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is
invalid;
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Procedural Impropriety is missing and is defined in
"Interpretation of Parts 1 to 5"
--- Quote ---
> (2) A “procedural impropriety” means a failure by an
enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it
by—
>
> (a)the TMA 2004,
>
> (b)the 2022 General Regulations, or
>
> (c)these Regulations,
>
> in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge
or other sum.
>
> (3) For the purposes of paragraph (2) such a failure includes,
in particular, the taking of any step, whether or not involving
the service of any document, otherwise than—
>
> (a)in accordance with the conditions subject to which, or
>
> (b)at the time or during the period when,
>
> it is authorised or required by the 2022 General Regulations
or these Regulations to be taken.
>
--- End Quote ---
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