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#Post#: 42006--------------------------------------------------
Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not designated
for that class of vehicle
DIR By: privates
Date: October 23, 2024, 7:42 am
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Hope everyone is well,
I have received this PCN. This was while me and my friend were
dropping off a car part for his vehicle (wing panel) into the
garages near-by to this loading spot. (labelled on maps location
with red stripe)
I noticed on the map location of the PCN it shows a completely
different location to where the PCN occurred. The PCN was given
on Mount Pleasant Street but the Map location on the council
website of the PCN shows Norval Road in a completely different
area. Is this contestable?
I also had returned to the vehicle while the officers were given
the vehicle a PCN (and still taking photos) and explained to
them what I had been doing but they failed to show any care. I
have a picture of this as evidence and a video.
PCN :
HTML https://ibb.co/ScLZF7N
HTML https://ibb.co/WkDnZqw
GSV :
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5409131,-0.2907755,3a,90y,201.13h,74.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSF9LSQ2f6kklxuaXYuiUQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyMS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Loading location :
HTML https://ibb.co/7n56h5n
Draft :
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice
(PCN) referenced above, which was issued to my vehicle while
parked in a loading bay. I believe the PCN was issued in error,
and I respectfully request that it be canceled for the following
reasons:
Loading Activity: At the time the PCN was issued, I was actively
loading a heavy wing panel for a vehicle into a nearby garage.
This was a legitimate use of the loading bay, and I parked there
as it was the safest and most practical location to complete
this task. When I returned to my vehicle, I explained this to
the officer issuing the PCN (badge number B 1388), but
unfortunately, he proceeded with the issuance of the ticket
despite my explanation.
Interaction with the Officer: I have video footage and
photographs documenting my interaction with the officer, where I
clearly explained that I was engaged in loading activity. This
evidence supports my claim that I was using the bay for its
intended purpose and that the officer was made aware of this.
Incorrect Location on PCN: I have noticed a significant
discrepancy on your website regarding the location of the
alleged contravention. The map location provided for the PCN
shows Norval Road, while the PCN was actually issued on Mount
Pleasant Road. This inaccuracy further invalidates the issuance
of the PCN, as it does not accurately reflect where the alleged
contravention took place.
In light of the reasons stated above, I kindly request that you
cancel this PCN. I have attached relevant evidence, including
videos and photographs of the interaction with the officer, to
support my appeal.
I trust that upon review, you will find that the PCN was
incorrectly issued. Should you require any further details or
clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to
your prompt response.
#Post#: 42012--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 23, 2024, 8:00 am
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You are not formally challenging, this is a first stage
representation AKA informal challenge.
The location is the one given in the PCN. Not sure what BEAR
means but lp18 means lamppost 18.
Loading is immaterial I'm afraid because the contravention does
not refer to loading. This is a two-part test:
Is the vehicle classified a 'goods vehicle', and
Was loading taking place?
You fail on the first because your car is classed as M1 which is
not a goods vehicle classification. Yes, it's possible but
highly unlikely that you could convince an adjudicator that the
vehicle has been modified and/adapted to carry goods, but this
is a stiff test requiring permanent adaptation, not simply that
a load could be carried in the boot.
GSV shows the bay adjacent to lp18 in Mount Pleasant.
You may find this adjudication decision useful as it refers to
case law and possibly addresses arguments which you might be
tempted to advance.
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Sager%20Construction%20v%20Hammersmith%20%26%20Fulham.pdf
#Post#: 42022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 23, 2024, 8:35 am
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OK, you were loading, but unfortunately you parked to load in a
loading bay restricted to goods vehicles only.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/A8b7zyAUXqfBxV5C7
A BMW 320 saloon is not a goods vehicle
Did you look for the bay restrictions sign when you parked ?
#Post#: 42156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: privates
Date: October 24, 2024, 7:53 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> You are not formally challenging, this is a first stage
representation AKA informal challenge.
>
> The location is the one given in the PCN. Not sure what BEAR
means but lp18 means lamppost 18.
>
> Loading is immaterial I'm afraid because the contravention
does not refer to loading. This is a two-part test:
>
> Is the vehicle classified a 'goods vehicle', and
> Was loading taking place?
>
> You fail on the first because your car is classed as M1 which
is not a goods vehicle classification. Yes, it's possible but
highly unlikely that you could convince an adjudicator that the
vehicle has been modified and/adapted to carry goods, but this
is a stiff test requiring permanent adaptation, not simply that
a load could be carried in the boot.
>
> GSV shows the bay adjacent to lp18 in Mount Pleasant.
>
> You may find this adjudication decision useful as it refers to
case law and possibly addresses arguments which you might be
tempted to advance.
>
>
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Sager%20Construction%20v%20Hammersmith%20%26%20Fulham.pdf
>
--- End Quote ---
I can see the outcome was the contravention did occur.
#Post#: 42157--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: privates
Date: October 24, 2024, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> OK, you were loading, but unfortunately you parked to load in
a loading bay restricted to goods vehicles only.
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/A8b7zyAUXqfBxV5C7
> A BMW 320 saloon is not a goods vehicle
>
> Did you look for the bay restrictions sign when you parked ?
>
--- End Quote ---
Clearly didn't unfortunately. Does the fact I was present at
vehicle not make a difference either?
#Post#: 42195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 24, 2024, 12:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: privates link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=3569.msg42022#msg42022
date=1729690511]
> OK, you were loading, but unfortunately you parked to load in
a loading bay restricted to goods vehicles only.
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/A8b7zyAUXqfBxV5C7
> A BMW 320 saloon is not a goods vehicle
>
> Did you look for the bay restrictions sign when you parked ?
>
--- End Quote ---
Clearly didn't unfortunately. Does the fact I was present at
vehicle not make a difference either?
[/quote]
Unfortunately not.
#Post#: 43145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 30, 2024, 9:40 am
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[member=61]privates[/member] well the website does not give you
any of the statutory grounds:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ntUtMdq.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kn3wNAZ.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/z34EnSR.png
I even made a short video to illustrate the point:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHsUOntIHHk
The latest Brent case on this point is Muhammadmaisam Datoo v
London Borough of Brent (2240196951, 29 July 2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X8WGsVS-DSfY_ndf6VsbOTKUYO880bQG/view.<br
/>For now just to get the ball rolling, make a representation
saying that the alleged contravention did not occur.
In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order, with a bit
of luck it might not exist.
#Post#: 43201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 30, 2024, 3:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
?
The cited appeal relates to an enforcement notice and the
discrepancy between its and the website's grounds.
But this is not what we have here.
Instead we have a reg. 9 PCN which is not required to specify
any grounds of representation, therefore I cannot see how there
can be a lack of consistency when none is specified.
#Post#: 43248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: October 31, 2024, 3:17 am
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It helps as it will be the same at the Notice to Owner stage
#Post#: 46993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - 232 Parked in a parking place or area not
designated for that class of vehicle
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 25, 2024, 12:16 pm
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For later, The Brent (Goods Vehicles) (Free Loading Places) (No.
6) Order 2023
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AyvOGg5L3wLYr65c_OEQr_kkqyz74AtV/view.
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