DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
*****************************************************
#Post#: 42106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 23, 2024, 4:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> It might have been better if I'd quoted this...
--- End Quote ---
I think my precis in reply #6 covers it:
--- Quote ---
> it defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that
you mustn't use one whilst driving.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 42143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: roythebus
Date: October 24, 2024, 6:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]It might have been better if I'd quoted this...
--- End Quote ---
I think my precis in reply #6 covers it:
--- Quote ---
> it defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that
you mustn't use one whilst driving.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
I think you'll find it says the opposite! It says you mustn't
drive if you are using a phone.
110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he
is using—
(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
Off with my pedant's hat!
#Post#: 42146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 24, 2024, 6:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Touché, Roy !!! :)
#Post#: 42232--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: roythebus
Date: October 24, 2024, 10:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Haha. Two aides of the same coin.
#Post#: 42241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: October 25, 2024, 2:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
> [quote author=DontStandForNonsense
link=topic=3565.msg42014#msg42014 date=1729689162]
> Can I request their evidence?
>
--- End Quote ---
What "letter" have you received? Is it a Notice of Intended
Prosecution (NIP)? A Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty
(COFP)? Or what?
As for evidence, you can request what you like but it's unlikely
you'll get it unless you opt for a court hearing.
[/quote]
I think it's this one: "A Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty
(COFP)?"
#Post#: 42244--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: October 25, 2024, 2:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer)
on Pistonheads where he says
>
> The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in
your hand and using that phone.
>
> - all three elements necessary.
>
--- End Quote ---
The law actually says nothing about holding it in your hand; it
defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that you
mustn't use one whilst driving.
--- Quote ---
> Can I request what evidence they think they have?
--- End Quote ---
Only if you do not take up the fixed penalty offer. You will
then be prosecuted in court and before you enter your plea you
should be provided with the evidence the police will rely on to
convict you. This will probably consist of a statement from the
officer, saying what he saw you doing.
I think you need to ponder over this question:
--- Quote ---
> I may have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief
moment to turn of a reminder alarm
--- End Quote ---
As southpaw has already asked, did you or didn't you? If you
can't remember, you (and the court) may have to rely on the
officer's evidence.
[/quote]
So basically your word against theirs, with theirs being taken
as gospel unless you can prove otherwise?
What incentive does a person have not trying their luck
contesting? If it falls against you in court, are their
additional charges or points?
Also, what happens to lying officer if you prove you weren't
doing what they accuse you of?
#Post#: 42249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 25, 2024, 2:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> So basically your word against theirs, with theirs being taken
as gospel unless you can prove otherwise?
--- End Quote ---
You have to cast sufficient doubt on the officer's evidence so
that the court is not sure it's correct. What you must bear in
mind is that the court will consider that the officer has little
to gain from committing perjury whereas you have a lot to gain
by convincing them he is mistaken. You have the additional
problem that despite being asked twice on here what you actually
did or did not do, you haven't elaborated on "I may have looked
down and fumble with my phone for a brief moment to turn of a
reminder alarm". If you do that in court it won't help you
convince the Bench that you did not use the phone.
--- Quote ---
> What incentive does a person have not trying their luck
contesting?
>
--- End Quote ---
The Criminal Justice System is not a game where you "try your
luck". Its aim is to convict the guilty and see the innocent
acquitted.
--- Quote ---
> are their additional charges or points?
--- End Quote ---
No additional points. Six is the only number that can be imposed
for the offence. The court does have the power to order your
disqualification for any period they see fit, but this is very
unlikely.
But there are considerably increased financial penalties. If
convicted you will pay fine of half a week's net income, a
"Victim Surcharge" of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs of
around £650. If your weekly income if £500 it will cost you
£1,000.
--- Quote ---
> Also, what happens to lying officer if you prove you weren't
doing what they accuse you of?
>
--- End Quote ---
If you adopt the approach that the officer is lying you will
received short shrift. The best you can suggest is that he was
mistaken.
#Post#: 42258--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: October 25, 2024, 3:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> are their additional charges or points?
--- End Quote ---
No additional points. Six is the only number that can be imposed
for the offence. The court does have the power to order your
disqualification for any period they see fit, but this is very
unlikely.
But there are considerably increased financial penalties. If
convicted you will pay fine of half a week's net income, a
"Victim Surcharge" of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs of
around £650. If your weekly income if £500 it will cost you
£1,000.
--- Quote ---
> Also, what happens to lying officer if you prove you weren't
doing what they accuse you of?
>
--- End Quote ---
If you adopt the approach that the officer is lying you will
received short shrift. The best you can suggest is that he was
mistaken.
[/quote]
Wait so in the case of someone earning £800 per week, are you
saying their fine would be:
£400 (50% of earnings) + £80 (40% of original fine) + £650?
I wouldn't in a court of law say the Policeman lied (although
they frequently do).
#Post#: 42265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: 666
Date: October 25, 2024, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DontStandForNonsense link ---
>
> [quote]are their additional charges or points?
--- End Quote ---
No additional points. Six is the only number that can be imposed
for the offence. The court does have the power to order your
disqualification for any period they see fit, but this is very
unlikely.
But there are considerably increased financial penalties. If
convicted you will pay fine of half a week's net income, a
"Victim Surcharge" of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs of
around £650. If your weekly income if £500 it will cost you
£1,000.
--- Quote ---
> Also, what happens to lying officer if you prove you weren't
doing what they accuse you of?
>
--- End Quote ---
If you adopt the approach that the officer is lying you will
received short shrift. The best you can suggest is that he was
mistaken.
[/quote]
Wait so in the case of someone earning £800 per week, are you
saying their fine would be:
£400 (50% of earnings) + £80 (40% of original fine) + £650?
I wouldn't in a court of law say the Policeman lied (although
they frequently do).
[/quote]
No. 40% of the £400 fine is £160, not £80.
#Post#: 42269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: October 25, 2024, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
But the fine is £200
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 3
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page