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#Post#: 41984--------------------------------------------------
Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: October 23, 2024, 6:34 am
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Just over 10 days ago while driving my vehicle, I was stopped by
a police car and told it was for using a handheld mobile phone.
He didn't share any evidence with me and I'm not sure where
exactly he had seen me to be using my phone. I did not admit or
deny using the phone and he didn't ask to see my phone either. I
got me to confirm my details and sign a digital copy of some
sort of declaration which I think was more to do with confirming
he stopped me than an admission of any guilt.
Now I never even send/read texts or browse my phone while
driving. Calls I take via bluetooth which is hardwired into my
vehicle with the relevant buttons on my steering wheel. I may
have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief moment to
turn of a reminder alarm that is a huge distracting while
driving. Of course It would be silly to not have waited for a
safe place to pull over somewhere.
My work is totally dependent on me being able to drive and I
fear this one alleged offence will render me uninsurable or
unable to pay the inflated insurance costs in the following
years which I am told 6 points will certainly inflate.
From the letter, it seems they are tell me I can accept 6 points
with a £200 fine, or contest it in court.
I would really appreciate any advice that could help avoid me
getting points.
Thank you in advance.
PS, In almost 30 years of driving, I have never cut a red light
or gone over the speed limits.
#Post#: 41989--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: Rallyman72
Date: October 23, 2024, 6:46 am
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Unfortunately the offence isn't using it but is handling
it/touching it when it is not in a holder so it sounds as if you
are bang to rights. Past driving record is irrelevant. Others
may have further comment though.
#Post#: 41994--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 23, 2024, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DontStandForNonsense link ---
>
> I may have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief
moment to turn of a reminder alarm that is a huge distracting
while driving.
--- End Quote ---
Did you or did you not?
--- Quote ---
> PS, In almost 30 years of driving, I have never cut a red
light or gone over the speed limits.
>
--- End Quote ---
That undermines your credibility, as it’s completely incredible.
#Post#: 42011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: Reentrant
Date: October 23, 2024, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rallyman72 link ---
>
> Unfortunately the offence isn't using it but is handling
it/touching it when it is not in a holder so it sounds as if you
are bang to rights. Past driving record is irrelevant. Others
may have further comment though.
>
--- End Quote ---
See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer) on
Pistonheads
HTML https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=2095840&i=40<br
/>where he says
The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in your
hand and using that phone.
- all three elements necessary.
#Post#: 42014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: October 23, 2024, 8:12 am
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Can I request their evidence?
#Post#: 42028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: 666
Date: October 23, 2024, 9:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DontStandForNonsense link ---
>
> Can I request their evidence?
>
--- End Quote ---
What "letter" have you received? Is it a Notice of Intended
Prosecution (NIP)? A Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty
(COFP)? Or what?
As for evidence, you can request what you like but it's unlikely
you'll get it unless you opt for a court hearing.
#Post#: 42030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 23, 2024, 9:10 am
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--- Quote ---
> See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer) on
Pistonheads where he says
>
> The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in
your hand and using that phone.
>
> - all three elements necessary.
>
--- End Quote ---
The law actually says nothing about holding it in your hand; it
defines what a hand-held device is and goes on to say that you
mustn't use one whilst driving.
--- Quote ---
> Can I request what evidence they think they have?
--- End Quote ---
Only if you do not take up the fixed penalty offer. You will
then be prosecuted in court and before you enter your plea you
should be provided with the evidence the police will rely on to
convict you. This will probably consist of a statement from the
officer, saying what he saw you doing.
I think you need to ponder over this question:
--- Quote ---
> I may have looked down and fumble with my phone for a brief
moment to turn of a reminder alarm
--- End Quote ---
As southpaw has already asked, did you or didn't you? If you
can't remember, you (and the court) may have to rely on the
officer's evidence.
#Post#: 42080--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: Rallyman72
Date: October 23, 2024, 12:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Reentrant link ---
>
> [quote author=Rallyman72 link=topic=3565.msg41989#msg41989
date=1729683977]
> Unfortunately the offence isn't using it but is handling
it/touching it when it is not in a holder so it sounds as if you
are bang to rights. Past driving record is irrelevant. Others
may have further comment though.
>
--- End Quote ---
See post by AGTLAW (a well respected motoring lawyer) on
Pistonheads
HTML https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=2095840&i=40<br
/>where he says
The offence is made out when driving and holding a phone in your
hand and using that phone.
- all three elements necessary.
[/quote]
The OP admitted using it, handling it and driving in his/her
original post so I still stand by my comment of appearing to be
bang to rights, perhaps I should have said "isn't just using
it". All three elements that you allege are required are present
here - holding it, driving, and using it even if that was to
cancel an alarm/notification.
The law actually says:
--- Quote ---
> It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet, or any
device that can send or receive data, while driving or riding a
motorcycle.
>
> This means you must not use a device in your hand for any
reason, whether online or offline.
>
> For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or
videos, or browse the web.
>
> The law still applies to you if you’re:
>
> stopped at traffic lights
> queuing in traffic
> supervising a learner driver
> driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving
> holding and using a device that’s offline or in flight mode
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 42094--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 23, 2024, 1:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rallyman72 link ---
>
> The law actually says:
>
> [quote]It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet,
or any device that can send or receive data, while driving or
riding a motorcycle.
>
> This means you must not use a device in your hand for any
reason, whether online or offline.
>
> For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or
videos, or browse the web.
>
> The law still applies to you if you’re:
>
> stopped at traffic lights
> queuing in traffic
> supervising a learner driver
> driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving
> holding and using a device that’s offline or in flight mode
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
What law actually says all that?
#Post#: 42105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Alleged Offence: Use a handheld mobile phone / device while
driving a motor vehicle on a road
DIR By: Rallyman72
Date: October 23, 2024, 3:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> [quote author=Rallyman72 link=topic=3565.msg42080#msg42080
date=1729703802]
> The law actually says:
>
> [quote]It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav,
tablet, or any device that can send or receive data, while
driving or riding a motorcycle.
>
> This means you must not use a device in your hand for any
reason, whether online or offline.
>
> For example, you must not text, make calls, take photos or
videos, or browse the web.
>
> The law still applies to you if you’re:
>
> stopped at traffic lights
> queuing in traffic
> supervising a learner driver
> driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving
> holding and using a device that’s offline or in flight
mode
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
What law actually says all that?
[/quote]
That was taken from here -
HTML https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law
It might have been better if I'd quoted this, it seems the bit
about whether on-line or not isn't actually in the legislation,
even the government doesn't know what the legislation actually
says so what chance do the rest of us have:
--- Quote ---
> 1. These Regulations may be cited as the Road Vehicles
(Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003 and
shall come into force on 1st December 2003.
> Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
Regulations 1986
>
> 2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986(2) are amended by inserting after regulation 109—
> “Mobile telephones
>
> 110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road
if he is using—
>
> (a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
>
> (b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
>
> (2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive
a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is
using—
>
> (a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
>
> (b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
>
> (3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional
licence if the person supervising is using—
>
> (a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
>
> (b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),
>
> at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a
motor vehicle on a road.
>
> (4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and
(3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs
an interactive communication function by transmitting and
receiving data.
>
> (5) A person does not contravene a provision of this
regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention—
>
> (a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the
police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or
999;
>
> (b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
>
> (c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in
order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged
contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence
holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
>
> (6) For the purposes of this regulation—
>
> (a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as
hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the
course of making or receiving a call or performing any other
interactive communication function;
>
> (b)a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if
he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence
holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act
1988 (grant of provisional licence);
>
> (c)“interactive communication function” includes
the following:
>
> (i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;
>
> (ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;
>
> (iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and
>
> (iv)providing access to the internet;
>
> (d)“two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy
apparatus which is designed or adapted—
>
> (i)for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken
messages; and
>
> (ii)to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz,
925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz,
1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and
>
> (e)“wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as
in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(3).”
--- End Quote ---
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