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       #Post#: 41959--------------------------------------------------
       Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: facade
       Date: October 23, 2024, 3:31 am
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       This came up in discussion (I lead an exciting life)
       If even the towball of your car proceeds across the stop line
       when the light is red then it is an offence. (I know the same
       applies for amber, but with amber you have the unsafe/impossible
       to stop defence)
       does this apply to both lines?
       The Highway Code rule 178 states
       If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the
       time that the signal goes red, you should stop as soon as
       possible and MUST stop at the second white line.
       Rule 178 references RTA 1988 Sect 36 & TSRGD Schedule 14 pt1,
       but I can't find the answer there.
       I insisted that if your towball is proceeding over the second
       line when the light goes red that the offence is complete.
       (Obviously, if it does clear the first line it might not clear
       the second)
       Out of pedantry, which one is the advanced stop line? (Or are
       the two together "advanced stop lines")
       The first one (for cars) has been advanced against the direction
       of travel, but the second (usually the original pre-cycle box
       line) is further forwards, so cyclists stop in an advanced
       position.  The HC calls them first & second to eliminate
       confusion.
       #Post#: 42039--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: October 23, 2024, 9:24 am
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       De minimis non curat lex
       #Post#: 42057--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: 666
       Date: October 23, 2024, 10:14 am
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       --- Quote from: facade link ---
       >
       >
       > Out of pedantry, which one is the advanced stop line? (Or are
       the two together "advanced stop lines")
       >
       > The first one (for cars) has been advanced against the
       direction of travel, but the second (usually the original
       pre-cycle box line) is further forwards, so cyclists stop in an
       advanced position.  The HC calls them first & second to
       eliminate confusion.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I can seldom resist a pedantry challenge.
       It's called an "advanced stop line". The "advanced" applies to
       the "line", not the cyclist.
       Anyway, since the HC has kindly eliminated confusion, what
       purpose is served by introducing it?
       #Post#: 42085--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: facade
       Date: October 23, 2024, 1:02 pm
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       --- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
       >
       > De minimis non curat lex
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know they probably wouldn't prosecute over just the towball,
       but it is possible to clear the first line on amber, and still
       be half across the second line when red appears- so you should
       have stopped.
       I just wanted confirmation that the Law applies to both lines
       equally, and you can't cross either on red.
       #Post#: 42095--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: October 23, 2024, 1:37 pm
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       Which presumably is why you asked about towballs.
       #Post#: 42245--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: The Slithy Tove
       Date: October 25, 2024, 2:15 am
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       While we're on the subject of pedantry, let's then ask:
       1. Does it count when you start to cross the line (like in
       rugby) or when you've fully crossed the line (like in football)?
       (I know the answer comes back to de minimis, but what the heck).
       2. Why do you have a towball on the front of your car?
       #Post#: 42287--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: baroudeur
       Date: October 25, 2024, 6:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: The Slithy Tove link ---
       >
       > While we're on the subject of pedantry, let's then ask:
       >
       > 1. Does it count when you start to cross the line (like in
       rugby) or when you've fully crossed the line (like in football)?
       (I know the answer comes back to de minimis, but what the heck).
       > 2. Why do you have a towball on the front of your car?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It's very useful in pushing a caravan into a restricted space.
       All seasoned caravanners (should) have one fitted
       #Post#: 42325--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Advanced Stop Lines & Cycle Boxes.
   DIR By: 666
       Date: October 25, 2024, 9:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: The Slithy Tove link ---
       >
       > While we're on the subject of pedantry, let's then ask:
       >
       > 1. Does it count when you start to cross the line (like in
       rugby) or when you've fully crossed the line (like in football)?
       (I know the answer comes back to de minimis, but what the heck).
       > 2. Why do you have a towball on the front of your car?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       1. The offence is actually to "proceed beyond the stop line".
       AIUI that occurs when any part of the vehicle fully crosses the
       line.
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