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#Post#: 41924--------------------------------------------------
Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20 Sidcup
Bypass
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: October 22, 2024, 4:24 pm
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Dear Forum,
I would appreciate your advice regarding my husband's SJP
(received 15/10/24 for driving 46 mph in a 40 mph zone on the
A20 Sidcup Bypass, where a temporary 40 mph limit was introduced
in early 2024. There was a lot of controversy around fines on
this road earlier in the year. This offence relates to 22/4/24.
Despite responding to the NIP twice (dated 09/07/24 and
20/08/24) and accepting responsibility as the driver, he has now
received an SJP. He holds a German driving licence, which he has
not changed in 30 years and has no prior endorsements.
My questions are:
- Is 46 mph within the allowable threshold, given the 10% + 2
mph tolerance rule?
- Should we request the calibration certificate to confirm the
speed reading's accuracy and consider contesting it?
- Could the decision to issue an SJP instead of a fixed penalty
offer be influenced by his German driving licence, and what
would be the best way to proceed in this case?
Many thanks for your help and insights.
#Post#: 41928--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 22, 2024, 4:48 pm
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Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance!
How/why did your husband respond to the NIP twice?
There is no 10% +2mph "tolerance". The guidelines, which are
only guidelines (but are followed quite strictly) are that
enforcement starts at 10% +2mph.
Since Brexit, EU licence holders can drive in the UK until they
are 70 or 3 years from when they became resident, whichever is
sooner. Not entirely sure when this started (Brexit seems to
have been somewhat of a moveable feast) or what the transitional
arrangements were (e.g. whether on day 1 all EU licence holders
who had been resident for more than 3 years were no longer
licensed, or what)
#Post#: 41933--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: October 22, 2024, 5:53 pm
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Thank you.
He replied to NIP twice because it was received twice. It wasn't
apparent to us that he sent it off twice, until they sent copies
alongside SJP.
So really he is right on the threshold @46mph. I am still not
sure why they decided to go to the Court and not offer a fixed
penalty, unless they are up for a trick.
Do you have any advice for us? Would the calibration certificate
be useful?
Thank you in advance.
#Post#: 41941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: itsnotmwyouno
Date: October 22, 2024, 6:35 pm
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He is over the threshold for enforcement since it starts at 46.
It would be counted as 46 even if 46.99 mph as figures are
always rounded down, not to the nearest number. How long was it
following the offence was the NIP sent?
He may well be able to ask for the sentencing to be in line with
the fixed penalty level.
#Post#: 41942--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 22, 2024, 6:36 pm
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--- Quote from: Milky Way1 link ---
>
> Do you have any advice for us?
>
--- End Quote ---
Based on what?
#Post#: 41953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: October 23, 2024, 2:49 am
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--- Quote from: Milky Way1 link ---
>
> I am still not sure why they decided to go to the Court and
not offer a fixed penalty, unless they are up for a trick.
--- End Quote ---
Nothing of the sort. We don't know the reason for the tardiness
of the S.172 forms or why it was sent twice. But that tardiness
meant it was far too late for a course, and even the offer of a
fixed penalty ran the risk of timing out. So they went straight
for the SJP.
--- Quote from: Milky Way1 link ---
> Do you have any advice for us? Would the calibration
certificate be useful?
>
--- End Quote ---
As advised, ask to be sentenced at the fixed penalty rate,
giving reasons. Forget calibration certificates. Are you
suggesting the speed was less than 40?
#Post#: 41954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 23, 2024, 2:58 am
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Does the SJPN list just speeding?
As far as your questions go:
--- Quote ---
> - Is 46 mph within the allowable threshold, given the 10% + 2
mph tolerance rule?
--- End Quote ---
Dealt with above.
--- Quote ---
> - Should we request the calibration certificate to confirm the
speed reading's accuracy and consider contesting it?
--- End Quote ---
Does he believe it is inaccurate? Or is he just considering
"fishing"? In any case he hasn't got much time to consider it as
the SJPN must be responded to in 21 days.
That stretch is covered by an average speed system. There is no
speed measurement as such. A camera takes a photo at the
beginning and end. The elapsed time between the two is used,
together with the known distance to calculate the average speed.
There is little to go wrong.
--- Quote ---
> - Could the decision to issue an SJP instead of a fixed
penalty offer be influenced by his German driving licence, and
what
> would be the best way to proceed in this case?
--- End Quote ---
It could be influenced by the fact that they may not have
received his initial response (hence my first question). Why did
he respond twice? But other than that who knows? He could try
ringing the ticket office to find out why he was not offered
either a course or FP (that would also answer my first
question).
He may be pleased to learn that the stretch is reverting to
National Speed Limit (70mph) at the end of this month.
#Post#: 41956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 23, 2024, 3:03 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> Does the SJPN list just speeding?
>
> As far as your questions go:
>
> [quote]- Is 46 mph within the allowable threshold, given the
10% + 2 mph tolerance rule?
--- End Quote ---
Dealt with above.
--- Quote ---
> - Should we request the calibration certificate to confirm the
speed reading's accuracy and consider contesting it?
--- End Quote ---
Does he believe it is inaccurate? Or is he just considering
"fishing"? In any case he hasn't got much time to consider it as
the SJPN must be responded to in 21 days.
That stretch is covered by an average speed system. There is no
speed measurement as such. A camera takes a photo at the
beginning and end. The elapsed time between the two is used,
together with the known distance to calculate the average speed.
There is little to go wrong.
--- Quote ---
> - Could the decision to issue an SJP instead of a fixed
penalty offer be influenced by his German driving licence, and
what
> would be the best way to proceed in this case?
--- End Quote ---
It could be influenced by the fact that they may not have
received his initial response (hence my first question). Why did
he respond twice? But other than that who knows? He could try
ringing the ticket office to find out why he was not offered
either a course or FP (that would also answer my first
question). If he finds out he could then explain that to the
court if he decides to ask to be sentenced at the FP equivalent.
He may be pleased to learn that the stretch is reverting to
National Speed Limit (70mph) at the end of this month.
[/quote]
EDIT: I've just noticed the dates thanks to the above answer.
That would certainly have an influence over how the offence
would be dealt with, especially if no satisfactory response was
received until late August.
#Post#: 41957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: October 23, 2024, 3:17 am
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The offence was 22/4/24 so around 3 months after the 1st NIP
received.
1st NIP 09/07 = replied 18/07 - they sent the copy in the
documents. We keep the copy too.
2nd NIP (final reminder) 16/08 = replied 26/08, stamped as
received by the met 10/09/24
Charged 14/10/2024
In the witness statement of the Camera Processing Caseworker
says: 'I am unable to provide any technical evidence concerning
the original offence. In the event you wish to challenge you
should request the attendance of a police officer.'
They included a couple of photographs from Safe Zone Siemens
citing relevant info, speed, distance etc. Hence I thought of
calibration, but I think you very kindly answered it.
I'm unsure of the best approach here.
Thank you
#Post#: 41958--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Advice on SJP for Speeding 46miles on 40 mile A20
Sidcup Bypass
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: October 23, 2024, 3:28 am
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[quote author=NewJudge link=topic=3557.msg41956#msg41956
date=1729670611]
[quote author=NewJudge link=topic=3557.msg41954#msg41954
date=1729670293]
Does the SJPN list just speeding?
Yes, just 1 offence ' speed exceeding 40mphr'.
Where I find the ticket office number?
PS> I tried to attach the file but sayss the folder is full
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