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#Post#: 56398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: jays86
Date: February 3, 2025, 11:10 am
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Just received the below through from Havering, any suggestions
as to what to do here...?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/8L1vsF7V/PXL-20250203-170546121-2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/8L1vsF7V
#Post#: 56408--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: February 3, 2025, 11:31 am
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Please to advise what has happened, if anything, between 23rd
October last and today.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/LXVjR4Zf/PXL-20250203-170546121-2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/8L1vsF7V
#Post#: 56424--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: jays86
Date: February 3, 2025, 12:29 pm
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Reps were submitted as suggested by Hippocrates, then no further
correspondence received or sent until this popped through the
letterbox today.
#Post#: 56449--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 3, 2025, 3:21 pm
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:o ::)
Did you receive a Charge Certificate?
#Post#: 56455--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: jays86
Date: February 3, 2025, 3:39 pm
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I never received a Charge Certificate, the only correspondence I
received was dated 18th October and then this today.
#Post#: 56662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: MrChips
Date: February 4, 2025, 2:56 pm
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Can you confirm how and when you submitted representations? The
charge certificate looks incorrect where it says the original
PCN was served on 18 October - by my reckoning it was deemed
served on 22 October which would have given you until 18
November to submit representations.
Other than your representations, have you sent anything else,
e.g. a follow up or 'chaser'?
#Post#: 56668--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 4, 2025, 3:41 pm
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What c.c.? Complaint time to Councillor Ray Morgon and Jo Green.
TMA reference is BS.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/contravention-code-53j-havering-entering-school-zone/msg55319/#msg55319
#Post#: 56693--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: February 5, 2025, 2:05 am
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If the car is leased ignore the balance of this post except to
tell us if it is leased.
There is a fundamental point.
The law says:
6 - Limitation on service of penalty charge notice
(1 )Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge
notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged
contravention or failure to comply occurred.
Alleged contravention date is 24 September = day 1
Day 28 = 21 October
PCN dated 18 October
OP says he received it on 22 October (OP's first post dated that
day says just received).
Deemed service is on the 2nd working day.
18 October was a Friday so deemed service was also 22 October.
If therefore the OP did make his post to this forum on the day
of receipt the PCN is unlawful and if I was the OP I would be
writing to the council telling them that everything they have
done from the start is unlawful and they must stop any further
action and cancel the PCN.
(Havering are error prone
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2024/12/havering-council-3-errors-in-one-pcn.html)
#Post#: 56752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: jays86
Date: February 5, 2025, 10:01 am
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Thanks for all the advice so far.
[member=43]MrChips[/member] I don't have the exact date I
submitted reps, poor record keeping on my part. Their letter
references 19th November, but I can't see why I would have left
it so long to get something over to them.
[member=7]mrmustard[/member] The car is not leased and that is
an interesting point that you raise regarding the 28 days.
Is the complaint here that, the PCN was served outside the 28
day period and is therefore unlawful. Furthermore no Charge
Certificate was ever received. Is there anything else I should
be saying?
#Post#: 56793--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station
Road/Branfill Road, RM14
DIR By: MrChips
Date: February 5, 2025, 1:23 pm
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OK, so Mr Mustard has (as usual) come forward with a trump card!
The PCN seems to have been served too late and so Havering
cannot (legally) pursue you for the penalty. That should be
enough to win it for you on its own.
Only trouble is the most recent letter suggests Havering believe
you to be beyond the point of making any representations and we
are a bit in the dark as to why. Can you seriously not recall
at all how and when you responded to them? I presume you sent
representations using their online portal? Did you take a
screenshot of what you wrote? Anything at all to indicate what
day it was?
Hopefully, it is as simple as writing to them to point out they
served the PCN too late. However I suspect they will
ignore/refute this, or fail to understand the concept of service
(after all their recent letter implies they believe the PCN was
served on 18 October). In which case you will have to somehow
get the PCN back on track of the formal process. If they have
issued a Charge Certificate, then the next stage is an Order for
Recovery which includes the means to get the process reset if
you can confirm you submitted representations in time and did
not receive a Notice of Rejection.
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