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#Post#: 41721--------------------------------------------------
Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: AoP
Date: October 21, 2024, 10:36 am
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Captured driving through a 'Term Timed School road close' thing
that I had no idea existed until now :D
PCN -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P94cs7ey2llbpjfcSyI6SI9nHsqDb5KP/view?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jKKIbeQo0j0rLWF0on65PKpvY7EDoyYO/view?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sQ8GxwDUmjmtIwTW_RtD05uTg3g0jGv7/view?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_AFUYe-Lx-zpo6kwW7NTXc3KtE0-QDwp/view?usp=sharing
This is the only appreciable sign I passed before turning left
from Nutbrook Street going South onto Adys Road (The arrow is
pointing North, whereas the school is located to the South of
this junction).
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zIdCsoUuVcZkH4VAOl9PZwPoTAHHTIFN/view?usp=sharing
Unsure what direction this sign is supposed to convey to
drivers: to turn right , or presence to a School Street being in
the direction of the arrow (Had a quick look at the signs manual
but cannot find a reference to it)?
Ergo: If a driver enters Adys Road, as I did via Nutbrook
Street, or enters Adys Road at the North end, they will only
become aware of the road closure when presented with the 'No
Vehicles' sign(s) at the Adys Road junction with Amott Road; at
which point no escape route exists - So what are their options?
Location -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/bXpkDtueGuZYKG4s7
#Post#: 41742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 21, 2024, 12:03 pm
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As you drive south down on Adys Road there is this sign, which
is not a traffic sign, and how many people would have any idea
what it implied.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/LrEezbTxeTyYUK3H9
then, as you say, the next signs are the actual restriction,
with no easy U-turn. What they should have installed, is a
traffic sign giving the restriction ahead and the possibility of
turning left at the next junction.
Here, before Nutbrook St is reached: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/EEsyfh5VURHVSsQx9
#Post#: 42078--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: AoP
Date: October 23, 2024, 12:12 pm
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[member=12]Incandescent[/member]
I couldn't agree more; It has been poorly instigated and easily
remedied: Can't fathom a honorable reason against that...!
--- Quote ---
>
> online status page states amount will increase to £130 on
5/11/24 - pay £65 now
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A7I3idssMXMkJzO68RbvqKjrVX4M1_rG/view?usp=sharing
Can anyone clarify what dates I should be mindful of?
Date of contravention 4/10/24; Date of PCN 11/10/24.
"28 days beginning with date of the notice" Leads me to believe
28 days from 11/10 is the 8/11: Is that correct, or is 'served'
still a thing working off the 4/10?
Telephoned to request an appointment to view the video at the
stipulated venue as per instructions, and slightly mockingly I
might add, told to search Google and use the links therein to
have access to all Pictures/Video held... :)
[Video has too many young persons that I can not obscure, so
will not be made public].
Photo as first captured and available 'turnpoint'...
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpPzwr1JRYHTn1dqIYoMvsjuXmt0upJ-/view?usp=sharing
#Post#: 43905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: AoP
Date: November 4, 2024, 8:55 am
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I did consider adding a 'TMO' not set correctly aspect but
trying not to dilute into too many 'throw it at the wall and see
what sticks" arguments - Plus the TMO has my brain spinning!
Considered an argument re (PW) Permits holders: Parked within
restriction outside of operational hours, yet allowed to drive
out without contravention exists, yet no signs showing exit
boundary are present.
'The gazette' misquotes the TMO with a minor point allowing
'carers'..
As a respond is required soon:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Peeps
>
> For reasons I address below; I cannot accept liability for the
Penalty Charge Notice because:
>
> The contravention did not occur.
>
> It is accepted that I have entered a restricted area of
carriageway on Adys Road~junction Amott Road, after turning
South from Nutbrook Street.
>
> Upon revisiting the location and viewing camera footage, it is
clear that the signs conveying the restriction are not readily
visible to any motorists traveling South on Adys Road, at any
reasonable distance, and with clarity of meaning.
> The left sign is obscured by trees foliage and a telegraph
pole approaching the restriction and would only become clear &
legible once arriving shortly in advance of such sign. My camera
footage demonstrates the signs do not allow a clear vision of
sight from inside a car, or to be seen at all in a conveniently
timely manner. In my view, the driver would not have sufficient
time to see and react safely to the restriction before passing
the sign, by which time it is too late, and that would be if the
sign would have been noticed in the first instance.
>
> The absence of any advance warning signs on approaching this
time restricted road ensures the motorist will be unaware that
they are entering, when in operation, a dead-end road with no
easy means of escape.
> The restriction is operational during the school term
(08:30-09:15 & 03:45-04:15), the dates of which are determined
by the staff of the school. As the motorist is unaware of these
dates it may be assumed that the sign conveys a full time
restriction, which is disingenuous and factually incorrect.
>
> The Southwark CCTV footage is helpful inasmuch that it shows
my vehicle on the approach on Adys Road and clearly demonstrates
the impossibility faced by the motorist when confronted with the
restriction.
> There exists an inadequate amount of carriageway available in
which the motorist could attempt to turn their vehicle to
facilitate abeyance.
>
> Without any advanced warning, or indeed an escape route
available to the motorist once beyond the junction of Adys Road
& Nutbrook Street, I struggle to understand what options were
conceived accessible to; or appropriate of, the motorist once
confronted by the sign(s).
>
> *) Resident parking permit bays extend the entire length, from
the junction of Nutbrook Street, without interruption along both
kerb sides of Adys Road, to the dropped kerb followed by entry
to the restricted area. CPZ Permit area (PW) operates Mon-Fri,
9am-11am.
>
> *) Any motor-vehicle deemed of a size that could wait on the
carriageway other than in a permit bay; yet before the sign,
would also be liable to further contravention due to the
presence of both ‘dropped kerb(s)’, and Double Yellow Lines.
>
> *) Retracing the drivers direction of travel to negate any
contravention would therefore necessitate reversing North along
Adys Road to beyond the junction of Nutbrook Street; A distance
of approx 65m, in such a manner not to cause obstruction to
other road uses: mindful to the width of road, which can only
accommodate the passage of vehicles, in one direction, at one
time.
>
>
>
> I do not accept the assertion whereby an enforcement authority
would willfully place any motorist in possible infringement of
The Road Vehicle (con & use) Regulations 1986, as the default
behaviour -
>
> [106. No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven,
a motor vehicle backwards on a road further than may be
requisite for the safety or reasonable convenience of the
occupants of the vehicle or other traffic, unless it is a road
roller or is engaged in the construction, maintenance or repair
of the road. ]
>
> Although I do accept that the following is not mandatory, I
point out that based on the Traffic Signs Manual, the signs are
recommended to be visible from 60 meters and should face the
direction of traffic. By placing the sign behind obstruction,
the sign would inevitably fail to be visible from 60 meters.
> The photo and video evidence clearly demonstrate this in terms
of anticipated visibility being foreshortened.
>
> Whilst it is incumbent upon a motorist to consult sign(s) and
comply with advertised restrictions, it is incumbent upon an
enforcement authority to ensure the sign(s) implementing the
terms of a Traffic Management Order is adequate to communicate
the nature of the restriction to motorists, and adapting the
signs to the environment where it is going to be in force, and I
do not believe that has been demonstrated here.
>
> The aim of the School Streets Programme is a worthy concept:
yet poorly enacted, dilutes the intended concept of road safety
and air quality zones: As demonstrated when motorists
consequently become entrapped within Ady’s Road due to the
absence of any prior warnings adequately highlighting the
restriction.
>
> The enforcement authority seem to be mindful of the need to
forewarn motorists by way of the erection of “blue rectangular
signs with the legend ‘School street [option]’” on all
approaches. The signs do not conform to any proscribed within
the signs manual and convey no meaningful information: Indeed
the sigh erected in advance of Nutbrook Street junction with
Adys road shows the arrow pointing North, whereas the School is
located to the South!
>
> In conclusion you should cancel the PCN before I put on my
angry pants!
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 48256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: AoP
Date: December 4, 2024, 7:25 am
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Letter of rejection has arrived:
Page1 -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hcgoRuvkb2V5JgWZI5eOPpH-AYmnAPvE/view?usp=sharing
Page2 -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/15i_vntvof2Ao5VI4fS37o_l5m8-4zsH2/view?usp=sharing
Oddly, they have elected to include a blurred picture of a sign
which I take to be their representation of an advanced warning
sign, that I presume to be, on the North entrance to Adys Road
(dated circa August '23).
Unknown signage -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WWzDJIbGsdF-9Y2sdEASwFMUsQE2O6y2/view?usp=sharing
Which I believe was superseded by this sign at the same location
-
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yRfTVTG0GI6s6-ihTAN1gfipVyTV3cEg/view?usp=sharing<br
/>
I have also uploaded a video of the route taken, albeit a few
weeks later (Time-Stamp incorrect as card was corrupted, hence
belated video).
Video 31/10/24 -
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TOvp44TYJJkelmmGYbf4ZyAn-qlGm4zd/view?usp=sharing<br
/>
Would appreciate any views on whether there is any viability in
continuing to contest due to the; 'Absence of any advance
warning' leading the motorist into a cul-de-sac: 'Restriction
sign(s) 'as not being adequately visible' or 'No means of
escape' once confronted by the restriction.
#Post#: 48260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 4, 2024, 7:49 am
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Your argument is essentially down to inadequacy of signage.
This is subjective, so if you take them to London Tribunals,
that is what an adjudicator will decide on. Yes, it is a trap
with no meaningful advance signage, but the adjudicator could
say that the signs were straight in front of you so why did you
drive past them ?
Basically, it comes down to whether you are prepared to risk the
additional £65 you would have to pay if you lost.
#Post#: 48464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: AoP
Date: December 5, 2024, 9:19 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Your argument is essentially down to inadequacy of signage.
This is subjective, so if you take them to London Tribunals,
that is what an adjudicator will decide on. Yes, it is a trap
with no meaningful advance signage, but the adjudicator could
say that the signs were straight in front of you so why did you
drive past them ?
>
> Basically, it comes down to whether you are prepared to risk
the additional £65 you would have to pay if you lost.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you Incandescent for your input. Pretty much tallies with
what was within the rejection letter referencing the restriction
signs conforming to TSRGD 2016: yet weirdly, also enclosing a
redundant picture of a sign which clearly doesn't.
It also fails to address the preceding 'School Street' sign
displayed on Nutbrook Street being incorrectly sign-posted with
misleading information as to the direction to the school.
I would be interested to know at which point in my video the
signs first reveal their intention with any clarity to other
observers, whilst also being curious if the absence of any
advance warnings could be contestable?
--- Quote ---
> ...the adjudicator could say that the signs were straight in
front of you so why did you drive past them ?
--- End Quote ---
I'm guessing that responding with either: "I thought the school
was closed because the area wasn't awash with children", or ,
"The sign I passed on Nutbrook Street said the school was in the
other direction" won't win the day! :)
#Post#: 48510--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 5, 2024, 2:31 pm
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@AoP PCN is fatally flawed re issue of a charge certificate. I
will PM you.
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P94cs7ey2llbpjfcSyI6SI9nHsqDb5KP/view?usp=sharing
2nd sentence under the picture. BTW, Hi guys at Southwark if
you are watching. ;D
#Post#: 49602--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 13, 2024, 4:35 am
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Game on shortly.
#Post#: 71652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code 52 m - Adys Road Junction Amott Road
DIR By: AoP
Date: May 15, 2025, 9:17 am
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Game on shortly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Appeal allowed quoting inadequate and confusing signage
HTML https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png
My sincere thanks go to Mr Morgan
([member=24]Hippocrates[/member]) for his unrelenting dogmatism.
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