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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 41722--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 21, 2024, 10:38 am
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Perhaps a little explanation will help you understand this:
At present, unless you plead guilty, you cannot be convicted of
speeding as the police have no evidence that you were driving.
They will, however, be fairly confident of seeing you convicted
for "Fail to Provide Driver's Details" (FtP). But unless you
plead guilty, this will involve a trial and, like you, they have
better things to do.
However, if you simply plead Not Guilty to both charges, they
will proceed with the one where they are most confident of
success (FtP). You don't really want that (because it is a far
more damaging conviction) and they don't really want that either
because it involves the bother of a trial.
So, you enter NG pleas to both but make it known that you will
change your plea and admit speeding if, and only if, they agree
to drop the FtP charge.
So the end result should be they are happy because they haven't
had to bother with a trial but have still secured a conviction.
You are happy because you are only convicted of the offence you
actually committed rather than one which was possibly caused by
items lost in the post.
#Post#: 41753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: October 21, 2024, 12:57 pm
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Thank you for the explanation it is appreciated.
Tick both boxes as Not Guilty.
My Not Guilty Plea will be
“I will change my plea and admit to the Speeding offence if, and
only if, the Fail to Provide Driver Details offence is dropped.”
Do I need to fill in the My Finances section? Seems a bit
intrusive, what happens if I don’t?
#Post#: 41757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 21, 2024, 1:09 pm
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--- Quote from: Speedygonzales link ---
>
> Do I need to fill in the My Finances section? Seems a bit
intrusive, what happens if I don’t?
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s how they calculate the fine. Off the top of my head, it’s
an offence not to complete it. Up to you.
#Post#: 41760--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 21, 2024, 1:21 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Do I need to fill in the My Finances section? Seems a bit
intrusive, what happens if I don’t?
--- End Quote ---
If you don't and they don't take action against you for failing
to do so, they will sentence you on an assumed income of £440pw.
#Post#: 41763--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: October 21, 2024, 1:53 pm
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Thanks again for all the help. You are doing some good work
here.
Glad to see the Pepipoo legacy continues
#Post#: 46398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: November 20, 2024, 11:03 am
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Update today.
Summons to Court in about two weeks’ time. Very little else in
the letter. Case ref matches.
Any advice? Do I need a solicitor?
How should I prepare?
#Post#: 46404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: November 20, 2024, 11:58 am
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Depends
#Post#: 46405--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: November 20, 2024, 12:11 pm
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If you have pleaded NG to both charges and intend to do the
"deal" mentioned earlier, you do not need a solicitor.
Arrive at the court in good time, ask to see the prosecutor for
your case and make your offer. If you are unable to see the
prosecutor before you are called into court, he first thing you
will be asked after identifying yourself is whether you want to
confirm your NG pleas. It is at this point you can make your
offer.
Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to do this
"deal" because it needs the agreement of the police prosecutor.
During the pandemic courts made every effort to have as few
people as possible attend and they began doing this deal under
the "Single Justice" procedure without the defendant's
attendance. Some courts have carried this procedure on whilst
others have reverted to a personal attendance being necessary.
Yours is obviously among the later.
#Post#: 46509--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: November 21, 2024, 9:46 am
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Thank you.
In trying to get the police prosecutor’s agreement should I
mention that the NIP was not served correctly and that there is
some evidence of a poor postal service to my address. Or again
is it best to keep it simple and don’t give them more than what
they need to know.
What happens if they don’t do the deal? How do I prepare for
that? A statement of facts and print off the Royal Mail claims
email chain.
If I am found guilty of both offences, then I believe, the
points on my license would take me over the 12-point limit. Can
I appeal after or is it best to set up mitigating circumstances
on the day.
#Post#: 46518--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: November 21, 2024, 10:15 am
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--- Quote ---
> In trying to get the police prosecutor’s agreement should I
mention that the NIP was not served correctly and that there is
some evidence of a poor postal service to my address. Or again
is it best to keep it simple and don’t give them more than what
they need to know.
--- End Quote ---
Just keep it simple. Make your offer. Only volunteer more
information if you are asked and all you need to say then is
that you did not received the NIP and request for driver's
details.
--- Quote ---
> What happens if they don’t do the deal? How do I prepare for
that? A statement of facts and print off the Royal Mail claims
email chain.
--- End Quote ---
As far as I am aware here has only been one instance on here
where the deal was not accepted. In that case the defendant was
less than polite to the prosecutor, telling him what he could
and couldn't do. So the prosecutor showed him.
In the unlikely event you do need to defend the "Fail to Provide
details" charge it is unlikely that your trial will take place
on that day. Instead it will probably be adjourned to a later
date. However, if it does proceed on the same day all you can do
is to take whatever evidence you have of earlier problems. I
have to say that to cite one particular item going adrift does
not seem to make a very convincing argument. I would imagine
most people could do that. However, if that's all you have,
that's all you have.
--- Quote ---
> If I am found guilty of both offences, then I believe, the
points on my license would take me over the 12-point limit. Can
I appeal after or is it best to set up mitigating circumstances
on the day.
--- End Quote ---
Unless you plead guilty to them both you cannot be convicted of
both offences. You cannot be convicted of speeding because the
police have no evidence that you were driving. If your offer is
rejected and the police proceed with the Fail to Provide charge,
the speeding charge will be dropped. In that event the worst
that can happen is for you to be convicted of the Fail to
Provide charge and that can only result in six points. Would
that take you to twelve or more?
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