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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 41642--------------------------------------------------
Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: October 21, 2024, 5:16 am
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I have a similar issue to recent posts but having read the house
rules I will start a fresh.
I have received a Single Justice Procedure notice in the post
for a speeding offence back in May (58 in a 40 zone). I did not
receive the NIP and this has come as a surprise. Again, not sure
who was driving but I am willing to take the fine and the points
(I am the registered keeper). Address is correct on the V5C but
having issues with Royal mail post not arriving (partner lost a
diamond ring a couple months ago, even though it was meant to be
signed for and tracked).
Also have I missed two NIPs in total? Years ago, I missed one
due to being abroad, but I was sent a reminder.
In a recent post it states:
“The normal way to deal with this is for he registered keeper to
plead not guilty to both offences but offer to plead guilty to
speeding on the understanding that the "fail to provide" charge
will be dropped.”
Could you please confirm this is the best way forward for me.
Thanks for any advice in advance.
Jay
#Post#: 41669--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 21, 2024, 7:39 am
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It depends on how strong your potential defence is. On the face
of it, your defence is that the NIP/s. 172 was not served
(delivered). You would need to prove this (on the balance of
probabilities).
If you have independent evidence of ongoing postal issues, e.g.
a paper trail of previous complaints to RM, etc., then it might
be worth defending the allegations.
If all you have is vague and rambling anecdotes of post going
missing previously, then doing the deal might be a better
option.
#Post#: 41683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: 666
Date: October 21, 2024, 8:44 am
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--- Quote from: Speedygonzales link ---
>
>
> Also have I missed two NIPs in total? Years ago, I missed one
due to being abroad, but I was sent a reminder.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
You've certainly missed one NIP, for the speeding. Possibly also
a reminder, though they are not required by law and many forces
don't send them.
The failure to furnish offence doesn't need a NIP.
As for the way forward, I'd echo Andy's advice
#Post#: 41689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:05 am
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I do not have anything direct from the Royal Mail as it was the
jeweler that had to make the claim against royal mail. I do how
ever have a protracted email chain with the jeweler that has
tracking and escalation numbers from the Royal Mail. The email
conversation also highlights how poorly staffed the Royal Mail
are and how difficult it is to talk to anybody at the mail
centres. Is this classed as vague and rambling anecdotes in the
eyes of the law?
Am I right in thinking that if this email chain is accepted as
evidence then the original NIP was not issued/served within the
14 days.
#Post#: 41691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:08 am
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--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
> The failure to furnish offence doesn't need a NIP.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes and no. Mostly no.
If the s. 172 requirement, which was incorporated into the NIP,
was not served, there was no s. 172 requirement and no s. 172
offence committed. However, assuming that the police can prove
that the notice was properly posted, it is presumed to have been
served unless the OP can prove otherwise.
#Post#: 41694--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:12 am
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--- Quote from: Speedygonzales link ---
>
> Am I right in thinking that if this email chain is accepted as
evidence then the original NIP was not issued/served within the
14 days.
>
--- End Quote ---
Drugs are bad, m'kay?
You would need to convince the bench that (on the balance of
probabilities) the NIP was not delivered. Evidence that other
items were not delivered, would tend to support your testimony
that the NIP was not delivered insofar as it demonstrates that
your post sometimes has issues.
#Post#: 41700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:35 am
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Plea deal it is, just because I have more important life issues
to deal atm.
So, tick both boxes as Not Guilty.
My Not Guilty Plea will be
“Your Single Justice Procedure Notice was my first indication of
the speeding offence therefore I have not been able to respond
under section 172 as I was not in receipt of the Notice of
Intended Prosecution for the Section 89 Road Traffic Act
offence.
If you accept my not guilty plea for the section 172 offence,
then I (the driver) will plead guilty to the speeding offence.”
Does that sound ok? Anything to add, take out or change?
#Post#: 41703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:42 am
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If you say that, the court ought to reject any guilty plea to
the speeding offence, as you’ve indicated that you may have a
defence to it. Why not just make the offer, without explaining?
#Post#: 41709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: Speedygonzales
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:57 am
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Apologies for being dumb. Do you mean:
Tick boxes.
Offence 1 section 172 - Not Guilty
Offence 2 speeding - Guilty
My Not Guilty Plea will be
“If you accept my not guilty plea then I (the driver) will plead
guilty to the speeding offence.”
I don’t want to attend court. I just want to throw some money at
this to make it go away.
#Post#: 41715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
DIR By: 666
Date: October 21, 2024, 10:16 am
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--- Quote from: Speedygonzales link ---
>
> Apologies for being dumb. Do you mean:
>
> Tick boxes.
> Offence 1 section 172 - Not Guilty
> Offence 2 speeding - Guilty
>
> My Not Guilty Plea will be
> “If you accept my not guilty plea then I (the driver) will
plead guilty to the speeding offence.”
>
> I don’t want to attend court. I just want to throw some money
at this to make it go away.
>
--- End Quote ---
You don't need to explain your NG plea for the s172 offence, and
you certainly must not identify yourself as the driver at this
stage. Just leave it blank.
Do NOT plead guilty to speeding. That would be to throw away
your bargaining position. Plead NG, but indicate that you're
willing to plead G if the s172 is dropped.
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