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#Post#: 45984--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: dave-o
Date: November 18, 2024, 5:29 am
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Harrow NOR. Obviously we will be taking it to adjudication.
Anything else to add? Also we would like to see about costs as
it's ridiculous keeping a vulnerable person hanging on for more
than a year. I guess this is done after a win at adjudication?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/4PSMf0g/NOR1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2MR1G9d/NOR2.jpg
I'm a bit perplexed by paragraph 4; "If you believed....".
Aside from the incredibly patronising tone, he has only had the
opportunity to make an informal representation, so what is this
"other chance"? Am I missing something or is this just council
patronising nonsense?
#Post#: 46000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 18, 2024, 6:53 am
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I would have mentioned the markings and repainting so as they
carried forward to the appeal but you can still introduce them.
No brainer to register the appeal and opt for a telephone
hearing.
Harrow may not contest this especially as it's the lowest
possible penalty in London at £60.
#Post#: 46002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: dave-o
Date: November 18, 2024, 6:57 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> I would have mentioned the markings and repainting so as they
carried forward to the appeal but you can still introduce them.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I did, although I haven't received the FOI details yet about
when and why the markings were repainted. Even assuming maximum
response times, I will have these in time for the adjudicator
appeal.
#Post#: 46004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 18, 2024, 7:01 am
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FOI is overkill for this - it's obvious they've been repainted
and an adjudicator will be happy with views from Google Maps.
#Post#: 46009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 18, 2024, 7:11 am
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If you must FoI, and I think you should, then ask this:
Please provide a copy of the committee report (and published
decision) which was submitted to the council pursuant to their
obligation under s87 Traffic Management Act 2004 for the purpose
of having regard to the Secretary of State's (who is the
'national authority' for these purposes)updated Statutory
Guidance issued in October 2022.
#Post#: 46386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: dave-o
Date: November 20, 2024, 10:14 am
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Hilarious - the council's answer to the FOI request about why
the bays were repainted was "because a work order was raised".
This is like a child answering a question with "because it is".
#Post#: 46387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 20, 2024, 10:25 am
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So no one owning up to the work order.
Case I posted on another thread:
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Case reference 2240374029
Authority London Borough of Havering
Contravention date 13 Nov 2023
Contravention time 18:04:00
Contravention location High Street
Penalty amount GBP 80.00
Contravention Not parked correctly within markings of
bay/space
Decision Date 13 Nov 2024
Adjudicator Alastair Mcfarlane
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to
Owner.
Reasons This case comes before me following the making of a
witness statement and I therefore consider the merits afresh.
The Council's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was not
parked correctly within the markings of the bay in Romford High
Street on 13 November 2023. A penalty charge notice was issued
at 1804.
The Appellant states that there was no error with his parking
and that he did park within the bay provided and explained the
difficulties were caused by a lorry in front of him and a car
behind him. He refers to front tyre being out of the bay.
The Council rely upon the evidence of its civil enforcement
officer. Whilst these are dark, it can be seen that the entire
front wheel of the Appellant's vehicle is within the adjacent
loading only bay.
However there is no evidence before me any condition to park
fully within the bay has been communicated to the motorist. The
Council describe the bay as a parking bay and that the vehicle
was straddling into a loading bay. However it is a requirement
for delegated legislation that the obligation to park fully
within the bay must be communicated.
As there is no evidence before me as to how this was done for
the bay in question, the appeal must be allowed.
#Post#: 46900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: dave-o
Date: November 25, 2024, 3:46 am
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I'm keen to start drafting the adjudicator appeal. A few
questions:
1) The unreasonable timescales. Shal I keep this roughly the
same as the formal reps as suggested by HCA earlier? I have
made the suggested FOI but they have 20 working days to reply,
and I am sure they will leave it until the last minute as they
did with my previous one. Is it not the case that council
parking departments can be assumed to have received the SOS's
guidelines?
2) We have "before and after" pictures for the repainting, with
the "before" pictures showing these as very worn. The FOI
request was pretty useless as in the formal response they stated
"A work order was raised by one of the Highway Inspector" as the
reason for repainting. I did later receive a reply stating "the
lining works were ordered as part of the Council's highways
maintenance responsibility to refresh faded road markings
throughout the borough." However this was not part of the formal
FOI request document, it was an informal reply to my response.
I am not sure it's strictly necessary though, as I believe the
"before" picture shows the markings as very worn, and the
"after" ones show they have since been repainted. The reason
for this is presumably obviously due to their condition.
3) In another user's thread, HCA stated "If this ever got to
Tribunal, then you'd phrase any formal reps in order to line you
up for a costs award against the authority". Is this a
costs-worthy case? I feel it is completely unreasonable to keep
a BB holder calling the TEC regularly for a whole year,
especially as we know this will entail being on hold for a long
period each time. If so, how should it be worded?
Thanks
#Post#: 47211--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: dave-o
Date: November 27, 2024, 3:41 am
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I'd very much appreciate any feedback, particularly on whether
the 12+ month wait for the OfR is a "silver bullet" and also on
the wording/likelihood of costs.
#Post#: 49189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
DIR By: dave-o
Date: December 10, 2024, 8:13 am
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Are there any tips on what to do when there is only a day or two
left in which to submit an appeal to the adjudicator, but the
keeper says they do not have an appeal verification code, as the
document was not included with the NOR?
Thanks
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