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       #Post#: 45984--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: dave-o
       Date: November 18, 2024, 5:29 am
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       Harrow NOR.  Obviously we will be taking it to adjudication.
       Anything else to add?  Also we would like to see about costs as
       it's ridiculous keeping a vulnerable person hanging on for more
       than a year.  I guess this is done after a win at adjudication?
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/4PSMf0g/NOR1.jpg
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/2MR1G9d/NOR2.jpg
       I'm a bit perplexed by paragraph 4; "If you believed....".
       Aside from the incredibly patronising tone, he has only had the
       opportunity to make an informal representation, so what is this
       "other chance"?  Am I missing something or is this just council
       patronising nonsense?
       #Post#: 46000--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: November 18, 2024, 6:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I would have mentioned the markings and repainting so as they
       carried forward to the appeal but you can still introduce them.
       No brainer to register the appeal and opt for a telephone
       hearing.
       Harrow may not contest this especially as it's the lowest
       possible penalty in London at £60.
       #Post#: 46002--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: dave-o
       Date: November 18, 2024, 6:57 am
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       --- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
       >
       > I would have mentioned the markings and repainting so as they
       carried forward to the appeal but you can still introduce them.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I did, although I haven't received the FOI details yet about
       when and why the markings were repainted.  Even assuming maximum
       response times, I will have these in time for the adjudicator
       appeal.
       #Post#: 46004--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: November 18, 2024, 7:01 am
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       FOI is overkill for this - it's obvious they've been repainted
       and an adjudicator will be happy with views from Google Maps.
       #Post#: 46009--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: November 18, 2024, 7:11 am
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       If you must FoI, and I think you should, then ask this:
       Please provide a copy of the committee report (and published
       decision) which was submitted to the council pursuant to their
       obligation under s87 Traffic Management Act 2004 for the purpose
       of having regard to the Secretary of State's (who is the
       'national authority' for these purposes)updated Statutory
       Guidance issued in October 2022.
       #Post#: 46386--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: dave-o
       Date: November 20, 2024, 10:14 am
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       Hilarious - the council's answer to the FOI request about why
       the bays were repainted was "because a work order was raised".
       This is like a child answering a question with "because it is".
       #Post#: 46387--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: November 20, 2024, 10:25 am
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       So no one owning up to the work order.
       Case I posted on another thread:
       -------
       Case reference   2240374029
       Authority   London Borough of Havering
       Contravention date   13 Nov 2023
       Contravention time   18:04:00
       Contravention location   High Street
       Penalty amount   GBP 80.00
       Contravention   Not parked correctly within markings of
       bay/space
       
       Decision Date   13 Nov 2024
       Adjudicator   Alastair Mcfarlane
       Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
       Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to
       Owner.
       Reasons   This case comes before me following the making of a
       witness statement and I therefore consider the merits afresh.
       The Council's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was not
       parked correctly within the markings of the bay in Romford High
       Street on 13 November 2023. A penalty charge notice was issued
       at 1804.
       The Appellant states that there was no error with his parking
       and that he did park within the bay provided and explained the
       difficulties were caused by a lorry in front of him and a car
       behind him. He refers to front tyre being out of the bay.
       The Council rely upon the evidence of its civil enforcement
       officer. Whilst these are dark, it can be seen that the entire
       front wheel of the Appellant's vehicle is within the adjacent
       loading only bay.
       However there is no evidence before me any condition to park
       fully within the bay has been communicated to the motorist. The
       Council describe the bay as a parking bay and that the vehicle
       was straddling into a loading bay. However it is a requirement
       for delegated legislation that the obligation to park fully
       within the bay must be communicated.
       As there is no evidence before me as to how this was done for
       the bay in question, the appeal must be allowed.
       #Post#: 46900--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: dave-o
       Date: November 25, 2024, 3:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm keen to start drafting the adjudicator appeal.  A few
       questions:
       1) The unreasonable timescales.  Shal I keep this roughly the
       same as the formal reps as suggested by HCA earlier?  I have
       made the suggested FOI but they have 20 working days to reply,
       and I am sure they will leave it until the last minute as they
       did with my previous one.  Is it not the case that council
       parking departments can be assumed to have received the SOS's
       guidelines?
       2) We have "before and after" pictures for the repainting, with
       the "before" pictures showing these as very worn.  The FOI
       request was pretty useless as in the formal response they stated
       "A work order was raised by one of the Highway Inspector" as the
       reason for repainting.  I did later receive a reply stating "the
       lining works were ordered as part of the Council's highways
       maintenance responsibility to refresh faded road markings
       throughout the borough." However this was not part of the formal
       FOI request document, it was an informal reply to my response.
       I am not sure it's strictly necessary though, as I believe the
       "before" picture shows the markings as very worn, and the
       "after" ones show they have since been repainted.  The reason
       for this is presumably obviously due to their condition.
       3) In another user's thread, HCA stated "If this ever got to
       Tribunal, then you'd phrase any formal reps in order to line you
       up for a costs award against the authority".  Is this a
       costs-worthy case?  I feel it is completely unreasonable to keep
       a BB holder calling the TEC regularly for a whole year,
       especially as we know this will entail being on hold for a long
       period each time.  If so, how should it be worded?
       Thanks
       #Post#: 47211--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: dave-o
       Date: November 27, 2024, 3:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'd very much appreciate any feedback, particularly on whether
       the 12+ month wait for the OfR is a "silver bullet" and also on
       the wording/likelihood of costs.
       #Post#: 49189--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
   DIR By: dave-o
       Date: December 10, 2024, 8:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Are there any tips on what to do when there is only a day or two
       left in which to submit an appeal to the adjudicator, but the
       keeper says they do not have an appeal verification code, as the
       document was not included with the NOR?
       Thanks
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