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   DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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       #Post#: 41500--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: Whattoplead
       Date: October 19, 2024, 10:51 am
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       --- Quote from: mickR link ---
       >
       > [quote author=ManxTom link=topic=3520.msg41489#msg41489
       date=1729346397]
       > [quote author=Whattoplead link=topic=3520.msg41487#msg41487
       date=1729345925]
       > Yes it was
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So that's why you didn't receive any previous notifications -
       you hadn't updated your address in January when you should have
       done...
       [/quote]
       I think what the OP is saying, despite receiving all mail from
       their previous address (where the V5 was originally registered)
       she did not receive anything prior to the SJPN
       [/quote]
       Thank you, that is what I was trying to say
       #Post#: 41501--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: Whattoplead
       Date: October 19, 2024, 10:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
       >
       > If the OP's ex, the OP's children and the OP all give credible
       evidence to the effect that *all* post addressed to the OP was
       handed to her, and that there was no NIP or reminder received,
       then she will be able to rebut the presumption of service.
       >
       > The speeding charge is of no relevance unless she opts to do a
       deal. Similarly the evidence or lack thereof is irrelevant
       either way. Either the OP does the deal, in which case no
       evidence is needed of the speeding offence, or she defends the
       s. 172, in which case the speeding charge will go nowhere
       because they have no evidence that she was the driver.
       >
       > Meanwhile, back in the real world, the OP moved house without
       updating the address on the V5C, and [claims that she] didn't
       receive the NIP. The court are somewhat unlikely to accept that
       it must have been lost in the post en-route to the previous
       address, rather than either lost after being served (delivered
       to the last known address), or not lost at all.
       >
       > The choice is either to defend the s. 172 charge, or do the
       deal and take the hit for the speeding.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I can see that these are my only two options, so which one is
       the least risky option to take? (I get a little bit of anxiety
       and in all honesty I just want it all done and dusted with
       minimal charges please)
       I'm not looking to be a hero or prove the justice system wrong
       etc, I just want to do the smartest option. I've never had any
       kind of letter like this or had to deal with the courts before.
       Thank you to everyone who's replied.
       #Post#: 41502--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: Southpaw82
       Date: October 19, 2024, 10:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The least risky is probably to plead guilty to the speeding so
       they drop the s 172 offence.
       #Post#: 41508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: October 19, 2024, 11:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
       >
       > The least risky is probably to plead guilty to the speeding so
       they drop the s 172 offence.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I agree.
       As Andy says, you would have to convince the court that all your
       post was passed on to you and that no NIP and request for
       driver's details was amongst it.
       Whilst your family may be able to testify on the first point,
       they cannot say what was passed on to you (unless they opened it
       all). That second point would rely on your testimony and that's
       really no different to you saying you didn't receive it (if
       there were no issues with your address). Whilst that defence is
       successful from time to time, I would suggest it fails more
       often than it succeeds.
       Of course if it does succeed you walk out with no conviction for
       anything - that's the upside. The downside is that if it fails
       you are likely to see a bill of more than £1,000 and the nasty
       endorsement I mentioned. Pleading guilty to speeding will see a
       bill of perhaps a few hundred pounds (if you have a net income
       of £600pw it will cost you £370). You will also have only three
       points and a far less damaging endorsement code.
       #Post#: 41509--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: 666
       Date: October 19, 2024, 12:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Just to stress, if you follow the best advice above and plead
       guilty to speeding, you MUST follow NJ's advice in post ~7 above
       and make it very clear that you are only willing to do so if the
       FTF charge is dropped.
       #Post#: 41510--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: Whattoplead
       Date: October 19, 2024, 12:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't have a 'mitigating circumstances section' And on the
       last page the form says that the offences are 'laid in the
       alternative'. It says that 'this means if you choose to plead
       'Guilty' to one offence and 'Not guilty' to the other the
       magistrates will only adjudicate on the offence to which you
       have pleaded 'Guilty' and the offence you pleaded 'Not guilty'
       to will be withdrawn.'
       I'm assuming this means I can just plead not guilty to the first
       charge of withholding the identity of the driver but guilty to
       the speeding charge?
       Also, you guys are brilliant, thank you I really was at a
       complete loss.
       #Post#: 41547--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: October 20, 2024, 4:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I'm assuming this means I can just plead not guilty to the
       first charge of withholding the identity of the driver but
       guilty to the speeding charge?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, that's the way to go.
       Unfortunately different areas adopt different procedures, which
       makes it difficult to give consistent advice.
       To be honest, the method you have been offered is far more
       sensible in most cases. The problem is, if you are not
       specifically told the offences are "in the alternative" and you
       plead guilty to speeding (which would not succeed without a
       guilty plea), there is a danger (admittedly a small one) that
       the court will then continue with the other charge and you do
       not have much by way of a defence to it. That's the reason why
       we usually make the recommendation as I did.
       But not to worry - the method you have been offered seems fine.
       #Post#: 41562--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: Whattoplead
       Date: October 20, 2024, 9:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
       >
       > [quote]I'm assuming this means I can just plead not guilty to
       the first charge of withholding the identity of the driver but
       guilty to the speeding charge?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, that's the way to go.
       Unfortunately different areas adopt different procedures, which
       makes it difficult to give consistent advice.
       To be honest, the method you have been offered is far more
       sensible in most cases. The problem is, if you are not
       specifically told the offences are "in the alternative" and you
       plead guilty to speeding (which would not succeed without a
       guilty plea), there is a danger (admittedly a small one) that
       the court will then continue with the other charge and you do
       not have much by way of a defence to it. That's the reason why
       we usually make the recommendation as I did.
       But not to worry - the method you have been offered seems fine.
       [/quote]
       Thank you so much for taking the time to confirm and for all of
       the advice :)
       I'll be sure to fill in the form and send it off tomorrow. The
       whole thing blindsided me so badly that it took me almost a week
       to actually read the whole form, not helpful but at least I had
       the time. I'm assuming you guys have dealt with enough of these
       that an update won't be necessary, if anyone is curious in a few
       weeks I'll be happy to get back to you.
       Lovely forum, you all helped more than you realise. Thank you xx
       #Post#: 41566--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
   DIR By: Gilan02
       Date: October 20, 2024, 10:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The good people on this site who give up their time to advise
       others will almost certainly appreciate an update as it confirms
       the advice is still correct or needs updating.
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