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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 41500--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: Whattoplead
Date: October 19, 2024, 10:51 am
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--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> [quote author=ManxTom link=topic=3520.msg41489#msg41489
date=1729346397]
> [quote author=Whattoplead link=topic=3520.msg41487#msg41487
date=1729345925]
> Yes it was
>
--- End Quote ---
So that's why you didn't receive any previous notifications -
you hadn't updated your address in January when you should have
done...
[/quote]
I think what the OP is saying, despite receiving all mail from
their previous address (where the V5 was originally registered)
she did not receive anything prior to the SJPN
[/quote]
Thank you, that is what I was trying to say
#Post#: 41501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: Whattoplead
Date: October 19, 2024, 10:56 am
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> If the OP's ex, the OP's children and the OP all give credible
evidence to the effect that *all* post addressed to the OP was
handed to her, and that there was no NIP or reminder received,
then she will be able to rebut the presumption of service.
>
> The speeding charge is of no relevance unless she opts to do a
deal. Similarly the evidence or lack thereof is irrelevant
either way. Either the OP does the deal, in which case no
evidence is needed of the speeding offence, or she defends the
s. 172, in which case the speeding charge will go nowhere
because they have no evidence that she was the driver.
>
> Meanwhile, back in the real world, the OP moved house without
updating the address on the V5C, and [claims that she] didn't
receive the NIP. The court are somewhat unlikely to accept that
it must have been lost in the post en-route to the previous
address, rather than either lost after being served (delivered
to the last known address), or not lost at all.
>
> The choice is either to defend the s. 172 charge, or do the
deal and take the hit for the speeding.
>
--- End Quote ---
I can see that these are my only two options, so which one is
the least risky option to take? (I get a little bit of anxiety
and in all honesty I just want it all done and dusted with
minimal charges please)
I'm not looking to be a hero or prove the justice system wrong
etc, I just want to do the smartest option. I've never had any
kind of letter like this or had to deal with the courts before.
Thank you to everyone who's replied.
#Post#: 41502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 19, 2024, 10:57 am
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The least risky is probably to plead guilty to the speeding so
they drop the s 172 offence.
#Post#: 41508--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 19, 2024, 11:34 am
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> The least risky is probably to plead guilty to the speeding so
they drop the s 172 offence.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree.
As Andy says, you would have to convince the court that all your
post was passed on to you and that no NIP and request for
driver's details was amongst it.
Whilst your family may be able to testify on the first point,
they cannot say what was passed on to you (unless they opened it
all). That second point would rely on your testimony and that's
really no different to you saying you didn't receive it (if
there were no issues with your address). Whilst that defence is
successful from time to time, I would suggest it fails more
often than it succeeds.
Of course if it does succeed you walk out with no conviction for
anything - that's the upside. The downside is that if it fails
you are likely to see a bill of more than £1,000 and the nasty
endorsement I mentioned. Pleading guilty to speeding will see a
bill of perhaps a few hundred pounds (if you have a net income
of £600pw it will cost you £370). You will also have only three
points and a far less damaging endorsement code.
#Post#: 41509--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: 666
Date: October 19, 2024, 12:04 pm
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Just to stress, if you follow the best advice above and plead
guilty to speeding, you MUST follow NJ's advice in post ~7 above
and make it very clear that you are only willing to do so if the
FTF charge is dropped.
#Post#: 41510--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: Whattoplead
Date: October 19, 2024, 12:32 pm
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I don't have a 'mitigating circumstances section' And on the
last page the form says that the offences are 'laid in the
alternative'. It says that 'this means if you choose to plead
'Guilty' to one offence and 'Not guilty' to the other the
magistrates will only adjudicate on the offence to which you
have pleaded 'Guilty' and the offence you pleaded 'Not guilty'
to will be withdrawn.'
I'm assuming this means I can just plead not guilty to the first
charge of withholding the identity of the driver but guilty to
the speeding charge?
Also, you guys are brilliant, thank you I really was at a
complete loss.
#Post#: 41547--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 20, 2024, 4:31 am
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--- Quote ---
> I'm assuming this means I can just plead not guilty to the
first charge of withholding the identity of the driver but
guilty to the speeding charge?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, that's the way to go.
Unfortunately different areas adopt different procedures, which
makes it difficult to give consistent advice.
To be honest, the method you have been offered is far more
sensible in most cases. The problem is, if you are not
specifically told the offences are "in the alternative" and you
plead guilty to speeding (which would not succeed without a
guilty plea), there is a danger (admittedly a small one) that
the court will then continue with the other charge and you do
not have much by way of a defence to it. That's the reason why
we usually make the recommendation as I did.
But not to worry - the method you have been offered seems fine.
#Post#: 41562--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: Whattoplead
Date: October 20, 2024, 9:10 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]I'm assuming this means I can just plead not guilty to
the first charge of withholding the identity of the driver but
guilty to the speeding charge?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, that's the way to go.
Unfortunately different areas adopt different procedures, which
makes it difficult to give consistent advice.
To be honest, the method you have been offered is far more
sensible in most cases. The problem is, if you are not
specifically told the offences are "in the alternative" and you
plead guilty to speeding (which would not succeed without a
guilty plea), there is a danger (admittedly a small one) that
the court will then continue with the other charge and you do
not have much by way of a defence to it. That's the reason why
we usually make the recommendation as I did.
But not to worry - the method you have been offered seems fine.
[/quote]
Thank you so much for taking the time to confirm and for all of
the advice :)
I'll be sure to fill in the form and send it off tomorrow. The
whole thing blindsided me so badly that it took me almost a week
to actually read the whole form, not helpful but at least I had
the time. I'm assuming you guys have dealt with enough of these
that an update won't be necessary, if anyone is curious in a few
weeks I'll be happy to get back to you.
Lovely forum, you all helped more than you realise. Thank you xx
#Post#: 41566--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure
DIR By: Gilan02
Date: October 20, 2024, 10:56 am
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The good people on this site who give up their time to advise
others will almost certainly appreciate an update as it confirms
the advice is still correct or needs updating.
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