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#Post#: 41420--------------------------------------------------
Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
zone
DIR By: RW33
Date: October 18, 2024, 7:31 pm
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Hello, this is a weird one. The car was parked on Vernon Road
around 8:30 pm, with a Controlled Zone sign next to it
indicating restrictions from 8am - 6:30pm. There are no other
sign on the side of the street (see pictures) so it appeared ok
to park here. On returning from a 10 min shopping, a parking
inspector was attaching a ticket to car. He explained that
although the Controlled Zone sign shows 8am - 6:30pm on this
side, the sign that matters is the one attached behind it, which
says 8am - 10:00pm. The driver had no idea about that other
sign, and also it was unusual that a sign visible from the
parking area is not applicable. What have that sign showing 8am
- 6:30pm, then?
When this was pointed out to the parking inspector, he said that
the 6:30pm sign is for cars driving towards that sign from
inside Vernon Road and the 10pm sign attached behind it is for
cars driving from the opposite side from Turnpike Lane - even
though the restriction applies to the same section of road. If
that were to be the case, how did the inspector know which
direction the car was being driven from? I have never heard of
such as thing!
In addition, the sign showing restrictions till 10pm is not
visible from a driver's viewpoint, because of an overgrown shrub
(see pictures) and the driver would not have seen it even if
they were turning into Vernon Road from Turnpike Lane. The only
point the driver would see a sign would be after the car was
stationary on the side of the street and the driver checked for
restrictions, where the sign would show that the restriction has
already ended.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Google map location -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/UTUKc9idEKKEnBKw8
PCN -
HTML https://imgur.com/L2TjX8L
Pictures -
HTML https://imgur.com/a/eZ2b8kJ
#Post#: 41425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 19, 2024, 1:55 am
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--- Quote from: RW33 link ---
>
> Hello, this is a weird one.
>
--- End Quote ---
The sign is not 'weird'. The parking inspector was quite right:
this is a sign governing the entrance to a CPZ, not a small sign
governing the bay. These small signs are not required in CPZs.
See the Highway Code:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/traffic-signs
and scroll down to 'Information Signs'.
What is weird is the sign is positioned so the the bay falls
into two CPZs.
You could post the rear of the PCN in case of errors in the
'small print'.
#Post#: 41431--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 19, 2024, 3:56 am
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As John UK said, the situation is not weird. Those signs are
zone signs; you parked in a marked bay that requires a sign for
the bay parking conditions, and you should have gone to look at
it. Here is the sign for the bay a short distance away from
where you parked: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/X3649ZMVTmZ5mLyn8
As you can seen, between 7-10 pm it is residents permit parking
only
#Post#: 41459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 19, 2024, 5:53 am
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Controlled zone entry signs control single yellow lines and not
bays - you must always check bay signs.
That said many CPZs are put in to unify bay parking and yellow
lines and this could be seen as misleading.
#Post#: 41492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: RW33
Date: October 19, 2024, 9:10 am
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Understood. Should have checked for any small bay signs :( . It
looks like there was one a bit further away, as Incandescent
says, but the CPZ sign was more obvious and convincing at that
time. But could I still argue that the presence of the CPZ sign
was misleading especially in the absence of bay signs nearby?
Here is the rear of the PCN -
HTML https://imgur.com/a/P1IjDN8
#Post#: 41498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 19, 2024, 10:25 am
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OP, the CPZ sign is irrelevant. That you thought it had effect
within a bay shows your lack of understanding of signs. But
you're in good company as the CEO apparently thought the same!
But they had the presence of mind to take a photo of and include
as evidence the applicable traffic sign i.e. the one within the
bay.
#Post#: 41764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: RW33
Date: October 21, 2024, 1:53 pm
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Am I right in guessing from the messages that there isn’t any
recourse to this?
#Post#: 41788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 21, 2024, 5:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RW33 link ---
>
> Am I right in guessing from the messages that there isn’t any
recourse to this?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, normal advice is to submit informal representations and
see what their reply says, before either paying or deciding to
take the matter further. So you could submit reps based on your
initial post, pointing out their own CEO was also confused on
the signs. The PCN says they will re-offer the discount if
refusing reps that are received within the discount period. PCN
date is 10th Oct so if you're going to do this you need to get
your skates on as today is the 21st, 11 days into the 14 day
discount window.
#Post#: 47753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: RW33
Date: December 1, 2024, 12:13 pm
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Reply to my informal representation came back saying PCN would
not be cancelled. Is there any point in taking this matter
further, or should I pay the discounted fine?
HTML https://imgur.com/a/VavVBWb
#Post#: 47838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) parked in a restricted street,
Ambiguous/Obstructed sign, Vernon Road-Turnpike Lane Controlled
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 2, 2024, 5:15 am
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The rejection has been written by an idiot without any regard to
the process position of this PCN. But whether this could be
developed, I don't know.
The letter states the following:
You can pay the discount of £65 if paid by 13th December;
You could have(NOT can, could have) paid £130 by 7 November;
The owner should now have a NTO demanding payment of £130 no
later than 6 December with no discount option.
So, you can pay £65 - whether in full settlement or as an
instalment who knows- whereas the owner must pay £130.
If you are not the owner(and how would the council know at this
stage and how could YOU be expected to know what the owner might
have received) then 2 penalties are being demanded concurrently:
£130 from the owner and £65, or is it £130, from you.
Clear as mud.
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