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#Post#: 5193--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ConfusedD
Date: September 15, 2023, 5:52 am
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I received the NTO (Notice to Owner) yesterday :( and I must
admit that my chances of winning seem slim. The order clearly
specifies that the car charging cable must be connected at all
times. In my initial appeal, I clearly stated that my car was
charged after the first 25 minutes, to which they responded that
the vehicle could have been moved to a regular parking bay if it
had finished charging. It's quite impractical to move the car
back and forth so frequently. I believe the £70 charge is
excessively steep in this situation.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 5217--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 15, 2023, 11:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, I made the point earlier that the sign in the bay is
specified for on-street use only.
Others have made the point that the effect of this sign and the
fact that failure to comply could result in the imposition of a
penalty charge must be conveyed clearly at the site.
You were asked to obtain photos of these signs, but we haven't
seen any.
The council say their noticeboards carry this info but have not
provided photos.
The order can say what it likes, but unless the effects of
failure to comply with the order are displayed clearly at the
site then its provisions are of no effect, this is not a
guessing game.
You have the NTO. The last day of the 28-day period is 11
October, not 12th as stated in brackets in the body of the NTO.
Why don't you contact the council, refer to their reply to your
informal reps and ask them for a photo of what it is they say
conveys the effect of the on-street traffic sign in the Ts and
Cs of use of the car park.
I note that reference has been made to the discount being
re-offered if reps are submitted within 14 days, however,
there's no reference to this in the NTO(although we've only seen
the front page, pl post the remainder). IMO, it would be a
breach of the council's public law duty to act fairly if they
were to offer the discount contingent upon a policy condition
which has not been brought to the owner's attention. As I said
above, this is not a guessing game. They may offer the discount
in the event of unsuccessful reps whenever they're submitted,
this is the exercise of discretion and perfectly fine.
IMO, you need details of the signs and the Ts and Cs and should
make an effort to obtain these before
#Post#: 5227--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: September 15, 2023, 3:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Since I was in a hurry, I planned to charge my car on my way
back, assuming I was paying for parking anyway.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> In my initial appeal, I clearly stated that my car was charged
after the first 25 minutes, to which they responded that the
vehicle could have been moved to a regular parking bay if it had
finished charging.
--- End Quote ---
I'm a little concerned on the apparent disparity between the two
statements above?
We haven't seen them but I assume that the CEO pics will show
your car unplugged?
#Post#: 5228--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ConfusedD
Date: September 15, 2023, 4:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> IMO, it would be a breach of the council's public law duty to
act fairly if they were to offer the discount contingent upon a
policy condition which has not been brought to the owner's
attention. As I said above, this is not a guessing game. They
may offer the discount in the event of unsuccessful reps
whenever they're submitted, this is the exercise of discretion
and perfectly fine.
> IMO, you need details of the signs and the Ts and Cs and
should make an effort to obtain these before
>
--- End Quote ---
Could you kindly clarify this ?
Regarding the other pages of NTO, apologies I missed to post it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 5230--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ConfusedD
Date: September 15, 2023, 4:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> [quote]Since I was in a hurry, I planned to charge my car on
my way back, assuming I was paying for parking anyway.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> In my initial appeal, I clearly stated that my car was charged
after the first 25 minutes, to which they responded that the
vehicle could have been moved to a regular parking bay if it had
finished charging.
--- End Quote ---
I'm a little concerned on the apparent disparity between the two
statements above?
We haven't seen them but I assume that the CEO pics will show
your car unplugged?
[/quote]
There's no inconsistency. As I mentioned before, we were in a
hurry to secure our passport appointment, so we didn't charge
the car. The minimum parking ticket was for one hour. When we
returned after our appointment, we noticed the parking ticket.
The officer agreed the signs didn't clearly indicate that the
car needed to be plugged in at all times, but unfortunately, he
couldn't do anything about the ticket that was issued. We
plugged in our car, as we still had half an hour left, and took
a few photos as evidence.
In my initial response to the council, I explained this
situation and attached the photos. The council's response
focused on the idea that if the car required less than an hour
charging, it could have been moved.
#Post#: 5326--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 17, 2023, 3:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Could you please repost the PCN in higher resolution? Even if I
zoom in the text is all pixelated, so we can't see if it's
correct.
See the advice here on how to post images:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
#Post#: 6031--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ConfusedD
Date: September 25, 2023, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for the delayed response @ cp8759.
Here are better quality images of NTO. Please let me know if you
require additional information or if the image quality is still
insufficient. I will try to scan if necessary.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 6034--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ConfusedD
Date: September 25, 2023, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
>
> OP, I made the point earlier that the sign in the bay is
specified for on-street use only.
> Others have made the point that the effect of this sign and
the fact that failure to comply could result in the imposition
of a penalty charge must be conveyed clearly at the site.
> You were asked to obtain photos of these signs, but we haven't
seen any.
> The council say their noticeboards carry this info but have
not provided photos.
> The order can say what it likes, but unless the effects of
failure to comply with the order are displayed clearly at the
site then its provisions are of no effect, this is not a
guessing game.
> You have the NTO. The last day of the 28-day period is 11
October, not 12th as stated in brackets in the body of the NTO.
> Why don't you contact the council, refer to their reply to
your informal reps and ask them for a photo of what it is they
say conveys the effect of the on-street traffic sign in the Ts
and Cs of use of the car park.
> I note that reference has been made to the discount being
re-offered if reps are submitted within 14 days, however,
there's no reference to this in the NTO(although we've only seen
the front page, pl post the remainder). IMO, it would be a
breach of the council's public law duty to act fairly if they
were to offer the discount contingent upon a policy condition
which has not been brought to the owner's attention. As I said
above, this is not a guessing game. They may offer the discount
in the event of unsuccessful reps whenever they're submitted,
this is the exercise of discretion and perfectly fine.
> IMO, you need details of the signs and the Ts and Cs and
should make an effort to obtain these before
>
--- End Quote ---
As suggested , I contacted the Peterborough council to inquire
about obtaining the photos of the on-street traffic sign in the
Ts and Cs of use of the car park. Unfortunately, the person I
spoke with seemed unfamiliar with these signs and consistently
referred to the electric parking bay sign, which is specific to
spaces reserved for electric vehicles only. She also mentioned
that appeals wouldn't be considered, as fines for parking in
such spaces without charging an electric vehicle are uniform
across the UK.
#Post#: 6038--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: September 25, 2023, 9:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In my initial appeal, I clearly stated that my car was charged
after the first 25 minutes
That is the discrepancy or perhaps better word is ambiguity....
You meant that you started charging after 25 minutes
The council and TBH myself, read it that charging was complete
after 25 minutes
Typical of council muppets re the T&C board but it may help with
appeal.
The T&C board is critical insofar as the fine detail is
concerned.
If the council cannot/will not supply a copy there is a hole in
their evidence
#Post#: 6043--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Code 71 for not charging electric car
DIR By: ConfusedD
Date: September 25, 2023, 12:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> In my initial appeal, I clearly stated that my car was charged
after the first 25 minutes
>
> That is the discrepancy or perhaps better word is
ambiguity....
> You meant that you started charging after 25 minutes
> The council and TBH myself, read it that charging was complete
after 25 minutes
>
--- End Quote ---
I appreciate your understanding and apologies for the confusion.
Yes, indeed we charged after 25 minutes parking in the electric
parking space but within the 1 hour paid parking space.
--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
>
> Typical of council muppets re the T&C board but it may help
with appeal.
> The T&C board is critical insofar as the fine detail is
concerned.
> If the council cannot/will not supply a copy there is a hole
in their evidence
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for pointing this out, I have obtained the council's
email address, and I plan to send an email this evening.
During my conversation with the individual, it felt as though
she was dismissing my concerns and implying that I was unaware
that electric cars needed to be plugged into charge in the UK.
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