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#Post#: 41340--------------------------------------------------
HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill Car
Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: ksi
Date: October 18, 2024, 6:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So in brief I'm not from the area I nipped into town for a quick
walk along the canal. I noted the car park but i did not enter
it. I parked outside of the entrance basically in some trees
like other cars were. There were no signs here and no parking
bays marked. The area itself appears to be a bit of an
industrial estate. I drove in, parked and walked across the
front of the car park entrance, and along the canal and did not
see any signs etc on route regarding that the areas was even
monitored by cameras let alone ANPR and my car did not enter
what any rational person would consider to be the car park.
So my appeal would be around the lack of appropriate signage
etc. My problem is that as I am not local to the area I am
unable to obtain photo to confirm whether it was a true error on
my part (the person I was with did not see the any signs either)
and google streetview is quite old or if they have basically set
the cameras up and don't care about collateral damage.
I've searched the forum and there only seems to be one issue
raised regarding a CCJ. I have marked on the attached doc where
the cameras has clocked my car, where I parked and where I
walked. I will update with a copy of the letter once my phone
has charge, from memory this is exactly how everything looked -
EDIT i cannot seem to upload the attachment - however the
document is attached ot the post on this forum
HTML https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/469961-hx-car-park-management-upper-mill-car-park-slaithwaite-hd7-5ha/
Can anyone help with the grounds i have for appeal etc, as i
really dont think there is appropriate signage or any indication
where where I parked was covered by the parking provider.
I've copied the standard questions from another forum to below
Thanks,
KS
1 Date of the infringement -24-9-24
2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days
from the 'offence' date] 30-9-24
[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please
LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s
3 Date received 5-10-24
4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms
Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont think so
5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? ANPR Photos
6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not yet due
23-10-24
Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
7 Who is the parking company? HX Car Park Management
8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Upper Mill Car Park
Slaithwaite, HD7 5HA
For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate
under.
IAS
#Post#: 41352--------------------------------------------------
Re: Upper Mill Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: b789
Date: October 18, 2024, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The link you have provided is not where anyone should go for
advice on Parking Charge Notices (PCN) and th image is not
available there anyway.
Please read this for instructions on how to upload images:
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
We need to see the Notice to Keeper (NtK). Redact only your
personal data, the PCN number and the VRM. Leave all dates and
times showing.
#Post#: 41354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Upper Mill Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: ksi
Date: October 18, 2024, 6:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the clarification, will get the NtK sorted shortly.
I had gathered the 'advice' there wasn't the best when it told
me just to basically ignore it, even though there is histories
of that provider actioning CCJs.
#Post#: 41364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Upper Mill Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: b789
Date: October 18, 2024, 8:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Nobody can simply "action" a CCJ. There is a whole process
involved and cannot simply just "happen". Nothing we advise on
is ever in danger of receiving a CCJ, even if it went to court
and ended up at a hearing and you lost.
If you were one of the minuscule number of defendants that ended
at a hearing, lost and a judgment was made against you, as log
as the amount of the judgment is paid within 28 days of that
judgment, there is no record of the CCJ. It is expunged from the
record.
Of all the cases we advise on that go as far as claim in the
county court, 99.9% of them are either struck out, discontinued
or won.
#Post#: 41702--------------------------------------------------
HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill Car
Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: ksi
Date: October 21, 2024, 9:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So in brief the driver was not from the area they nipped into
town for a quick walk along the canal. They noted the car park
but did not enter it. They parked (green in pics) outside of the
car park entrance (red in pics) basically in some trees like
other cars were. There were no signs here and no parking bays
marked. The area itself appears to be a bit of an industrial
estate. They drove in, parked and walked across the front of the
car park entrance, and along the canal (yellow in pics) and did
not see any signs etc on route regarding that the areas was even
monitored by cameras let alone ANPR and my car did not enter
what any rational person would consider to be the car park.
So the appeal would be around the lack of appropriate signage
etc. My problem is that as I/driver are not local to the area I
am unable to obtain photo to confirm whether it was a true error
(another person there did not see the any signs either) and
google streetview is quite old or if they have basically set the
cameras up and don't care about collateral damage.
I've raised this on another post but i wasn't aware of best
practice so will try and delete that one.
I have marked on the attached pics where the cameras has clocked
the car, where it was parked and the route walked. A copy of
the letter is also attached.
Can anyone help with the grounds I have for appeal etc, as I
really don't think there is appropriate signage or any
indication where where the car was parked was covered by the
parking provider.
I've copied the standard questions from another forum to below
Thanks,
KS
1 Date of the infringement -24-9-24
2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days
from the 'offence' date] 30-9-24
[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please
LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s
3 Date received 5-10-24
4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms
Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont think so
5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? ANPR Photos
6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not yet due
23-10-24
Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
7 Who is the parking company? HX Car Park Management
8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Upper Mill Car Park
Slaithwaite, HD7 5HA
For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate
under.
IAS
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/PNRHH3fk/ntk1.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/PNRHH3fk
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/jDVrwDJg/ntk2.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/jDVrwDJg
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/3kgQg3XK/ANPR.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/3kgQg3XK
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/gwmFs1s3/Car-Park-Location.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/gwmFs1s3
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/jWcVFv3m/Streetview-parked.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/jWcVFv3m
#Post#: 41718--------------------------------------------------
Re: HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill
Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: b789
Date: October 21, 2024, 10:24 am
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Do you know anyone in the area that could get some photos for
you? The GSV pictures are 15 years old. It would be helpful if
we could see what signage is in place and any boundaries.
The NtK is not fully compliant with PoFA so any appeal should be
only as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper
to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking
company.
As HX are IPC members, the most likely way this will be seen off
is if/when they issue a claim.
#Post#: 41723--------------------------------------------------
Re: HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill
Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: ksi
Date: October 21, 2024, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately not, I've searched facebook for any types of local
groups I could ask in without success.
I was planning on appealing (deadline is the 23 Oct), so is the
lack of signage/NtK notice the best ways to go about this? I
assume they've have to produce some type of evidence that there
is the correct signage and that that specific piece of land is
also covered (the latter not to me but the appeals body)?
Is there a way to edit the first post to removed any reference
to me knowing who the driver is?
#Post#: 41726--------------------------------------------------
Re: HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill
Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 21, 2024, 10:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> I assume they've have to produce some type of evidence that
there is the correct signage and that that specific piece of
land is also covered?
--- End Quote ---
Yes they do, but bear in mind any photos they have of the
signage are likely to be taken from angles that support the view
that it is clear and prominent (they're unlikely to have taken
photos that would undermine their own arguments)
#Post#: 41858--------------------------------------------------
Re: HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill
Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: ksi
Date: October 22, 2024, 9:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, I was looking to draft an appeal later tonight. Is there
any type of template that i might be able to follow which sets
out the format of which to appeal and the specific issues
related to the lack of signage/issues around the NtK and their
effect? Happy to research this if not but assume there may be
plenty of others who have raised similar appeals?
Thanks!
#Post#: 42090--------------------------------------------------
Re: HX Car Park Management - Not paid for parking -Upper Mill
Car Park Slaithwaite
DIR By: ksi
Date: October 23, 2024, 1:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
Really sorry for another post but i need to submit the appeal
tonight. I've drafted an appeal based on a template I've found,
however one point I did want to make but don't quite understand.
Is that the letter states that the driver has entered into the
contract;
however the earlier post say's
'The NtK is not fully compliant with PoFA so any appeal should
be only as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the
Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking
company.'
How should I use this in the appeal?
I was thinking
'Your letter states the driver is liable for the parking charge.
However, as you state in the letter you are unaware of the name
of the driver or their address, furthermore the evidence you
have provided does not allow for the identification of the
driver. There is no legal obligation to identify the driver to
you, therefore it is not possible to ascertain who, if anyone,
is liable for any alleged breeched any contract term. As such I,
as the registered keeper, am under no obligation legal or
otherwise to pay any unpaid parking charge.'
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