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       #Post#: 3968--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: crxvtec
       Date: August 27, 2023, 2:03 pm
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       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Pastmybest link=topic=350.msg3452#msg3452
       date=1692353677]
       > you were parked on the Broadway not Uxbridge rd
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The traffic order described it as "The service road on the south
       side of Uxbridge Road, fronted by Nos. 339 to 523 Uxbridge
       Road", to borrow a phrase from Mr Teper, is that not good
       enough?
       The schedule then says that there is a maximum of 15 spaces, so
       if the council then goes and paints 15 parking spaces in that
       parking place, it's hard to say they've done anything wrong as
       far as creating the bays & the restrictions.
       The problem for the council is that the PCN doesn't say "The
       service road on the south side of Uxbridge Road", it just says
       "Uxbridge Road", so the contravention alleged on the face of the
       PCN did not occur.
       Aside from that, the strongest point is likely to be that the
       council won't put in adequate evidence that it has properly
       communicated the requirement to park within an individual space,
       this is very much dependant on this photo
  HTML https://ibb.co/KKHS0v8
       not being included in any representations
       (I have seen cases before where the best photos of the signage
       are those submitted by the motorist, we really want to avoid
       that).
       Have you already sent the representations? It's not the end of
       the world if you have, but if not we can refine them a little.
       There is no 1000 character limit as you can just put the
       representation in a PDF and upload it as an attachment.
       [/quote]
       Hi CP, yes representation has gone and I edited it to fit the
       character limit - that's the copy I pasted in a previous message
       on this thread and focuses on the primary defence so it's now
       over to Harrow to can it or reject - and if they reject
       presumably I can appeal and then put in the supplementary
       defences if Harrow's rejection is compelling? I can't see how
       this is going to be worth their while to pursue but stranger
       things have happened.
       #Post#: 3985--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: August 28, 2023, 7:39 am
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       Let us know when you get a response from Harrow, if they reject
       one of us will represent you.
       #Post#: 6182--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: crxvtec
       Date: September 26, 2023, 6:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > Let us know when you get a response from Harrow, if they
       reject one of us will represent you.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       There's a response:
  HTML https://ibb.co/5RXwYx6
  HTML https://ibb.co/FgbzCP9
       They don't seem to be having any of it.
       #Post#: 6315--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: September 28, 2023, 4:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Obviously just wait for the notice to owner. The council is just
       hoping you'll give up and pay, they know that most people mostly
       give us as soon as they get the first rejection.
       #Post#: 6323--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: DancingDad
       Date: September 28, 2023, 5:14 pm
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       Notice to Owner will go to the hire/lease company assuming their
       name is on the V5c
       You need to contact them, pre warn them and ask that they
       challenge using the Hire Company ground and give your name and
       address (ensure they have the correct one)
       Do it in writing.
       This should prevent them simply paying or doing something silly
       like just forwarding the NTO to you.
       If they use that gound, it should see their NTO cancelled and a
       new one issued to you.
       #Post#: 6710--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: crxvtec
       Date: October 4, 2023, 12:09 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've written to the lease company and they've confirmed that
       they've passed on my details to Harrow Council so waiting for
       NTO.
       #Post#: 6720--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: DancingDad
       Date: October 4, 2023, 4:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: crxvtec link ---
       >
       > I've written to the lease company and they've confirmed that
       they've passed on my details to Harrow Council so waiting for
       NTO.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Does that mean they have received an NTO and challenged on hire
       ground, giving your details
       Or just that they've sent a random letter which will be ignored?
       #Post#: 6731--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: crxvtec
       Date: October 4, 2023, 7:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Sorry, I am confused. What is the "hire ground"?
       #Post#: 6734--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: DancingDad
       Date: October 5, 2023, 3:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: crxvtec link ---
       >
       > Sorry, I am confused. What is the "hire ground"?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       One of the statutory grounds that can be used to challenge an
       NTO
       #Post#: 6803--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Harrow Council code 24 poor markings
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 5, 2023, 5:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: crxvtec link ---
       >
       > Sorry, I am confused. What is the "hire ground"?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       A hire company can challenge a notice to owner on the basis that
       they're a hire company and the vehicle was on hire. The council
       will accept this, cancel the notice to owner, and then issue
       another one to the person who had hired the vehicle. Otherwise
       companies like Hertz or Europcar would go bust due to the
       millions of pounds in PCNs they'd have to pay.
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