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#Post#: 41144--------------------------------------------------
Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: LunaPiena
Date: October 17, 2024, 4:34 am
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Hi,
I have recently received a Single Justice Procedure Notice
letter (12/10/2024)from Metropolitan Police, for a speed offence
- going on 35mph on a 30mph road. About a week later, they sent
me an email saying ''This e-mail confirms a refund requested for
your order placed with MoJ-HMCTS Fixed Penalty Office on
17/06/2024'' for the amount of £100 which is a speed fine I paid
on the 17/06/24, for the same offence.
I called the court and they can't tell exactly why I am getting
a refund and why they've now changed it to a SJPN, they have
suggested possible reasons why that happed, and one of the
common one was that they haven't received my details and driving
license back, but they did for sure, as they have included copy
of the signed response from me, dated 01 May 2024.
I've had -3 points taken in November 2023 and did the course
already.
I've had 3 fines this year and all of them from the same road
and I am mad at myself because I always use the app Waze to go
everywhere, as it shows speed limit, and I believed I stick to
it especially when it shows cameras, so I don't get why I still
get fines for it on that same spot. Could it be that Waze speed
limit on that area is not accurate? I know I should be aware of
the signs and not solely rely on Waze, but shouldn't it be
accurate either way?
In case someone else got a fine in the same spot, the named road
is A40 nr Terrick StW12 to A40 nr Paddington Grn W2 E/B
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Any suggestion on what might happens? points? expensive fine?
suspension?
>:( ***UPDATE: I have just received a reply to my emails I sent
3 days ago to from North and Wales FPO :
"Your fine was paid on the 17th June 2024 and as part of the
conditional offer you were required to also send in your licence
details for your licence to be endorsed. As your driving licence
details were not received within the specified period, the
Metropolitan Police have now commenced proceedings in the
magistrates' court. This can no longer be dealt with at the
fixed penalty stage, you have been refunded and you will receive
a summons in due course.
Once a summons has been received you will know what court is
dealing with your case and you can contact them for further
information"
Thank you
#Post#: 41156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: RichardW
Date: October 17, 2024, 5:22 am
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There are lots of threads on here where people have failed to
read the Fixed Penalty offer and submit their licence details,
and a court appearance is the result. If this is first of the 3
offences, and you haven't sent licence details for the others,
then this is the first of 3 court appearances.... There might
still be time to submit licence details for the others - check!
The court fine will be higher, but still 3 points (per offence).
Not clear if you already have 3 points, and therefore adding 9?
In that case, the last case will potentially result in a
totting up ban for getting to 12 points.
Google street view clearly shows a reduction to 30mph over the
flyover at the location of the offences with average speed
cameras - you can't rely on Waze to be 100% right.
#Post#: 41158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: October 17, 2024, 5:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> ...and one of the common one was that they haven't received my
details and driving license back, but they did for sure, as they
have included copy of the signed response from me, dated 01 May
2024.
--- End Quote ---
As above, one of the most common reasons for having the fixed
penalty refunded is failure to submit DL details. They must be
submitted after the FP offer has been made, as part of the
acceptance process. What happened before (e.g. submitting them
when responding to the request for driver's details) if
irrelevant.
You may be able to persuade the court to sentence you at the FP
level. They have this guidance:
Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for
reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as
administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender,
the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of
the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The
offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of
the penalty notice in these circumstances.
Of course it was your fault that the FP could not be processed
but the example given in the guidance is "such as" and not
exhaustive. When responding to the SJPN You should explain the
circumstances and respectfully request the court considers
sentencing you at the FP equivalent. A kindly single justice
may be sympathetic and it will cost nothing to ask.
--- Quote ---
> Could it be that Waze speed limit on that area is not
accurate?
>
--- End Quote ---
Possibly. But it's always best to look out of the window.
#Post#: 41159--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: LunaPiena
Date: October 17, 2024, 5:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RichardW link ---
>
> There are lots of threads on here where people have failed to
read the Fixed Penalty offer and submit their licence details,
and a court appearance is the result. If this is first of the 3
offences, and you haven't sent licence details for the others,
then this is the first of 3 court appearances.... There might
still be time to submit licence details for the others - check!
The court fine will be higher, but still 3 points (per offence).
Not clear if you already have 3 points, and therefore adding 9?
In that case, the last case will potentially result in a
totting up ban for getting to 12 points.
>
> Google street view clearly shows a reduction to 30mph over the
flyover at the location of the offences with average speed
cameras - you can't rely on Waze to be 100% right.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi, I have submitted my licence all 3 times, not sure now if
they have received, if they are saying they didn't in this
occasion. They have attached copy of my documents signed with
driving license details on it, so for sure they have it,
otherwise they wouldn't send it back to me. Offence date 15th
april and I signed documents on 1st May.
In regards to point, I meant I had 3 point taken last year so
now I have 9 points left on my licence.
#Post#: 41163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: LunaPiena
Date: October 17, 2024, 6:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As above, one of the most common reasons for having the fixed
penalty refunded is failure to submit DL details. They must be
submitted after the FP offer has been made, as part of the
acceptance process. What happened before (e.g. submitting them
when responding to the request for driver's details) if
irrelevant.
You may be able to persuade the court to sentence you at the FP
level. They have this guidance:
Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for
reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as
administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender,
the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of
the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The
offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of
the penalty notice in these circumstances.
Of course it was your fault that the FP could not be processed
but the example given in the guidance is "such as" and not
exhaustive. When responding to the SJPN You should explain the
circumstances and respectfully request the court considers
sentencing you at the FP equivalent. A kindly single justice
may be sympathetic and it will cost nothing to ask.
HI, so I'm not sure I understand ...please be patience with me
:P
5th
Infraction happened on 15th April, received notice soon after
and I signed it with date 1st May (they have sent me back my
signed letter with DL details, so they have received it for
sure) and sent it back. I thought that was the standard process,
hence why they managed to offer a Fixed Penaly, which I paid on
17 June. Am I missing something? Is there any other way to make
a mistake with providing DL details on time and pay FP on time?
I am not sure where is the fault..can you please clarify what i
am missing , please :)
#Post#: 41169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 17, 2024, 6:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In order to accept a conditional offer of a fixed penalty, you
have to supply your driving licence details when you accept the
penalty regardless of whether you provided them before in
response to the s 172 notice. Did you do that?
#Post#: 41173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: RichardW
Date: October 17, 2024, 6:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: LunaPiena link ---
>
>
> In regards to point, I meant I had 3 point taken last year so
now I have 9 points left on my licence.
>
--- End Quote ---
Oh dear... that means that the third offence here is going to
result in a 6 month 'totting up' ban for reaching 12 points.
#Post#: 41174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: LunaPiena
Date: October 17, 2024, 6:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> In order to accept a conditional offer of a fixed penalty, you
have to supply your driving licence details when you accept the
penalty regardless of whether you provided them before in
response to the s 172 notice. Did you do that?
>
--- End Quote ---
From your question I assume there is a second part where I have
to provide my driving license second time, which i don't
remember doing, so It could be that I have not done it. OMG
that's so silly :'( :'(
#Post#: 41176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: BertB
Date: October 17, 2024, 6:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: LunaPiena link ---
>
>
> Hi, I have submitted my licence all 3 times, not sure now if
they have received, if they are saying they didn't in this
occasion. They have attached copy of my documents signed with
driving license details on it, so for sure they have it,
otherwise they wouldn't send it back to me. Offence date 15th
april and I signed documents on 1st May.
--- End Quote ---
It sounds like you have provided your licence details on the
S172 form you sent back to identify the driver. However the COFP
requires you to return the form with your licence details filled
in also. Did you do that or just submit payment online?
Is this SJPN related to the earliest offence or the most recent?
If the most recent, than that does cloud matters if you have
responded exactly the same on the two preceding COFPs.
--- Quote from: LunaPiena link ---
> In regards to point, I meant Ihad 3 point taken last year so
now I have 9 points left on my licence.
>
--- End Quote ---
What do you mean 3 points taken last year leaving you with 9
points? You received zero points for the offence last year you
did a course for. No points are added or deducted. You start
with zero points and 'earn' points for each offence. So in
theory assuming the first two 2024 offences have been processed
you will be on 6 points currently, with more to be endorsed once
this case has concluded.
However I am aware that you might think you start with 12 and
points are deducted until you hit zero, and that this is the
first offence of 2024 that has just hit the SJP stage. What are
dates of the other offences?
#Post#: 41183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single Justice Procedure Notice & fine refund
DIR By: LunaPiena
Date: October 17, 2024, 7:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BertB link ---
>
> [quote author=LunaPiena link=topic=3489.msg41159#msg41159
date=1729162627]
>
> Hi, I have submitted my licence all 3 times, not sure now if
they have received, if they are saying they didn't in this
occasion. They have attached copy of my documents signed with
driving license details on it, so for sure they have it,
otherwise they wouldn't send it back to me. Offence date 15th
april and I signed documents on 1st May.
--- End Quote ---
It sounds like you have provided your license details on the
S172 form you sent back to identify the driver. However the COFP
requires you to return the form with your license details filled
in also. Did you do that or just submit payment online?
Is this SJPN related to the earliest offence or the most recent?
If the most recent, than that does cloud matters if you have
responded exactly the same on the two preceding COFPs.
Yes I think I only provided DL details to identify driver only,
which sounds so stupid now that I am realizing the mistake.
However I am aware that you might think you start with 12 and
points are deducted until you hit zero, and that this is the
first offence of 2024 that has just hit the SJP stage. What are
dates of the other offences?
[/quote]
Yes I think I only provided DL details to identify driver only,
which sounds so stupid now that I am realizing the mistake.
Also Yes I got confused...I have 3 points from November 2023 and
endorsement course was 2022.
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