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#Post#: 85265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 12, 2025, 3:40 am
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1. This PCN is missing mandatory information. as provided at 4
(8 ) (v) of
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of
the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
2. I make this collateral challenge regarding the wording of the
sentence "If after...." Since the PCN omits mandatory
information that the PCN must be paid by 28 days beginning with
the date of the notice, the said statement therefore conflates
the two distinct time periods and renders the PCN unclear and
invalid. In light of the above, please cancel.
After thought: why not ask them for the original PCN? It will
not be the same!
#Post#: 85280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 12, 2025, 5:22 am
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Interesting, never thought of appealing on the grounds of
wording, a bit daunting as its a firt for me, and most probably
they will reject, at which point the fine will deffinitly stick
at £130.
Whats the likelyhood that those 2 ground mentioned would get
this overturned at adjudication or is it a 50/50
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> 1. This PCN is missing mandatory information. as provided at 4
(8 ) (v) of
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
>
>
> (v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of
the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
>
> Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):
>
> (iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of
the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
>
--- End Quote ---
This is mentioned on one of the pages, see attached, at the end
as part of the 'How to make represenation' it says
"If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with
the date on which this PCN is served no such representations
have been made, and the penatly charge has not been paid, we may
increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195 an dmay takes steps
to enforce payment of the increased charge." - So I assume point
1 cannot be used any longer?
#Post#: 85281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 12, 2025, 5:27 am
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> 2. I make this collateral challenge regarding the wording of
the sentence "If after...." Since the PCN omits mandatory
information that the PCN must be paid by 28 days beginning with
the date of the notice, the said statement therefore conflates
the two distinct time periods and renders the PCN unclear and
invalid. In light of the above, please cancel.
>
--- End Quote ---
Have read this, slightly confused, as it does have that
mandatory information, on the first page of the PCN where it
says 'The pentatly charge must be paid not later then the last
day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this
notice.
Am I misunderstanding this point?
#Post#: 85342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 12, 2025, 9:03 am
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Read the sentence. It refers to 28 days from the date of
service.
"If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with
the date on which this PCN is served no such representations
have been made, and the penalty charge has not been paid, we may
increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195 an may takes steps to
enforce payment of the increased charge."
Is it that clear?
#Post#: 85447--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 12, 2025, 7:52 pm
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Read the sentence. It refers to 28 days from the date of
service.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've read it, possibly im missing something so obvious or my
level english is not up to par with that required for this point
of the appeal :/
Para. 4 (8 ) (V) doesn't mention anything about using either of
the wording 'Service' or 'Notice' or that it has to be combined
with Para. 4 (8 ) (iii) which they've stated on Page 1 of the
PCN.
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> "If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with
the date on which this PCN is served no such representations
have been made, and the penalty charge has not been paid, we may
increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195 an may takes steps to
enforce payment of the increased charge."
>
--- End Quote ---
The 'And' would be correct, as you would have to have not done
both of those, otherwise had you done one then they would not
increase the fine.
#Post#: 85617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 13, 2025, 6:39 pm
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Hi Hippocrates, wondering if you're able to have a quick check
on the below, so I can decide if I go forth with the appeal or
bite the bullet on this and pay the discounted rate thats still
odly showing even though its past the 14 days :O
#Post#: 85629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 14, 2025, 3:26 am
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OP, as a minor correction, the references are not to 4(8)...
they should be to 4(8)(a)....
It's better if you see the requirement in full and then you can
compare with the PCN, hopefully this would improve your
understanding:
[4(8)(a)]
(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—
(a)state—
(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be,
Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable
with respect to the vehicle;
(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the
period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the
amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified
proportion;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the
28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;
(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be
sent; and
(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be
entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1
to this Act; and
(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be
made.
#Post#: 85630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 14, 2025, 3:29 am
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Hi HC Anderson,
I've had a look at that entire requirement and I see they've met
all those points including iii and V? or am I missing something
here..
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