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#Post#: 41083--------------------------------------------------
Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: October 16, 2024, 12:50 pm
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Hi All,
Just recived a Charge Notice form Havering council for a
contravention, that having reviewed the evidence based after
receiving this notice, I can say took place, where by I made a
right turn where it was not allowed, I clearly had not noticed
or seen the sign but as it stands the contravention took place,
so no denying that.
Attached Letter -
HTML https://imgur.com/a/4H7Aat2
The issue is I had not received the initial PCN, Now the charge
is £195 - How can I appeal this, as I genuinely had not received
any letter, else I would have paid the discount rate (£65)
rather then the miss this, and the full amount (£130) and opt to
pay an increased rate (£195) just doesn't make sense.
Looking at the council website
(
HTML https://www.havering.gov.uk/parking-2/parking-tickets-traffic-fines/2),<br
/>it actually has a section for 'I have a Charge Certificate but
have not had a Penalty Charge Notice' which is quite crazy,
nonethless it states the following, sounds a bit duanting the
thought of a recovery order.
"If you have not received a PCN but have received a Charge
Certificate, please wait for an Order for Recovery to be issued
that will enable you to make a Witness Statement or Statutory
Declaration against the PCN on the grounds that the PCN was not
received."
However their own policy below, sort of contradicts the above by
saying ""Not applicable as a Regulation 10 PCN will be issued by
post" on Page 19, G1.5 -
HTML https://www.havering.gov.uk/downloads/file/96/policy-for-enforcing-or-cancelling-a-pc
Await for some advice, as it'll be a shame to get penalised
above and beyond for something that genuinly didn't take place.
P.S a country court order means another £10 is added :O
#Post#: 41088--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 16, 2024, 1:25 pm
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This is an easy job provided you are proactive from this point
on.
When the council register the debt at TEC, they MUST send you an
Order for Recovery. This adds on £10 to the CC amount, but
allows you to submit a Statutory Declaration that the PCN was
not received. The form for this is normally included with the
OfR, but you can download it from the TEC website: -
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
If your post is dodgy, (as it seems to be nowadays in London
especially), you need to keep checking the status of the PCN at
weekly intervals, and when the amount increases by £10, you can
expect the OfR but you don't have to receive it to submit the
SD. All you do is download the form from TEC, fill it in, get it
witnessed, (about £10) and send it off with the box for "I did
not receive the PCN" ticked. Nothing else is needed, no reasons
etc.
What you are doing by submitting a Statutory Declaration to TEC
is telling them that you did not receive the PCN. You are not
submitting anything about the contravention itself. Once your SD
is accepted, the matter reverts to the PCN stage, at which point
you can either cough-up or submit representations against it.
#Post#: 41093--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: October 16, 2024, 1:47 pm
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Please have a read of the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING
YOUR CASE!**
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of page 1 of this forum. And then
correct
your posted document so that the PCN number and the vehicle reg
are visible. It's only necessary to redact your name & address.
#Post#: 46418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: November 20, 2024, 4:12 pm
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Enceladus. Reuploaded asrequested inline with the rules -
HTML https://imgur.com/7CPo3EO
Incandescent. I was more procrastianted then pro-active :'(
although it has now been way beyond the 14 days and an
additional 20 days and I have not recieved the Recovery of Order
in the post, nor has the PCN increased by £10.
I assume, I still go ahead and submit the form you've said,
which I believe is the PE2: Application to file a statutory
declaration out of time? If yes would the following suffice,
excuse the CAPs, as the form reque
"A PCN in relation to this contravention was never received by
post, the first I came to know about this was when I received a
charge certificate. I waited for a order of recovery as per the
process to allow me to appeal, but have still not recieved this
in the post, hence i have been advised to submit this form."
#Post#: 46427--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 20, 2024, 6:08 pm
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You can only submit the SD to TEC when Havering register the
debt. If you submit before they do this, TEC will just reject it
as they have no record of the PCN until it is registered. SOme
councils can be very slow in registering, I'm afraid. Have you
phoned TEC to check ? AS I said, you need to be proactive; you
don't want to miss the time window to submit the SD in-time.
Once you get out-of-time to submit, it is a whole new ball game.
#Post#: 46428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: November 20, 2024, 6:12 pm
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Nope, pro-active mode on now, I'll call them tomorrow in that
case, deffinitly don't want to miss the time window to submit
the SD .
As far as I know from Havering letter they would have waited 14
days then started to register it, meaning the start of this
month.
#Post#: 46460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 21, 2024, 5:36 am
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No. It simply means they cannot register within the 14-day
period not that they will register immediately it's lapsed.
#Post#: 46463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 21, 2024, 6:15 am
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We've seen weeks or even months before councils register PCNs at
TEC. There is no time limit on them in the regulations, as far
as I know, although there may be a limit in higher legislation.
#Post#: 49353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: December 11, 2024, 9:22 am
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Hi All,
The PCN is still sitting at £195, looks like they have not
registered it at the TEC yet, what options do I have, as i know
the letter and their website says I cannot appeal or do anything
until I receive the next letter.
Regards
Qamar
#Post#: 49361--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 11, 2024, 9:46 am
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With respect, proactive doesn't mean hyperactive!
I've given the link to the enforcement process and extracted the
following:
The completed statutory declaration should be returned to the
traffic enforcement centre within 21 days beginning with the
date of service of the Order for Recovery, although there are
provisions for the court to allow longer.
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process
So, every 14 days is fine as in the worst case you'd still have
7 days in which to submit your SD.(actually, the Guidance Notes
issued by TEC say 'within 36 days of registration'). You should
bear in mind that the signing of the SD must be witnessed either
by a solicitor, at a fee no doubt, or FOC at your local court.
Therefore time would be well spent finding out the whereabouts
of your local court, how best to contact them and the mechanics
of getting a SD witnessed.
Once the form [SD] has been completed it must be sworn i.e.
signed before a Commissioner for Oaths (e.g. a Solicitor), or an
Officer of a County Court appointed by the Judge to take
affidavits, or a Justice of the Peace (Magistrates Court). (This
service is available at most County Court Hearing
Centre, free but an appointment may be necessary).......If the
form has not been properly witnessed, the TEC will not be able
to process it.
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6037706ee90e070558e4299b/pe3-guidance-eng.pdf
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