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#Post#: 40620--------------------------------------------------
Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: eyalmms
Date: October 13, 2024, 7:31 pm
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Hi all
A woman lives on a private road with parking restrictions. There
was an event on and she'd been informed that restrictions were
being lifted for the event so informed the driver of my car they
could park on the road outside her house.
Problem is, she thought the Saturday was part of the event too
which it wasn't. The car was photographed at a time where the
signs on the road state parking isn't allowed (based on the
photos provided by the company). On hindsight turns out the
lifting of restrictions was informal and she'd just received a
text from the man who coordinates the parking on behalf of the
residents.
I am wondering if there are any grounds to appeal on a
technicality. For instance, the car was photographed by a warden
but not issued with a ticket at the time. Instead I received a
parking charge notice to my house issued 3 days later saying
they'd got my details through the DVLA for pursuing an
"outstanding" notice, which at the time of request this was not.
Would be grateful for any help. I have linked the sign, the
notice, and the picture from the parking charge showing a nearby
sign (mine is the car visible)
HTML https://imgur.com/a/GuD2VVK
#Post#: 40628--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: b789
Date: October 14, 2024, 1:20 am
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Who is this “man who coordinates the parking on behalf of the
residents”? Can “the woman who lives on the estate” ask this
“man” to get the PCN cancelled?
No one pays PPS if they’ve come here for advice. Tell the keeper
of the vehicle to try Plan A above first. If that doesn’t work,
send the appeal below, as the Keeper. No mention of who was
driving.
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
When that gets rejected, come back for help with a POPLA appeal.
#Post#: 40629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: eyalmms
Date: October 14, 2024, 1:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I tried that before I came here. He's a resident who has
authority on behalf the residents. He replied saying it's the
driver's fault and "there's nothing I can do here".
(Which I presume is that he can't be bothered/doesn't what to)
#Post#: 40630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: b789
Date: October 14, 2024, 1:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What about asking the management company/landowner to get it
cancelled?
#Post#: 40633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: eyalmms
Date: October 14, 2024, 2:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> What about asking the management company/landowner to get it
cancelled?
>
--- End Quote ---
They acknowledge there was a lifting for the event, but refused
to get involved as above!
#Post#: 40675--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: b789
Date: October 14, 2024, 8:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
For the time being, appeal to PPS as the Keeper (not the driver)
with the following, verbatim:
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
It will be rejected but they will issue a POPLA code where there
is more chance of a successful appeal. Even if POPLA appeal
fails, there is no obligation to pay the speculative invoice. It
may go as far asa court claim which is easily defended if it
ever went that far. That is a bridge to cross if we ever come to
it, suffice it to say that we have a 99% success rate.
#Post#: 40676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: eyalmms
Date: October 14, 2024, 8:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> For the time being, appeal to PPS as the Keeper (not the
driver) with the following, verbatim:
>
> [quote]I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your
'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement
and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to
your client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
It will be rejected but they will issue a POPLA code where there
is more chance of a successful appeal. Even if POPLA appeal
fails, there is no obligation to pay the speculative invoice. It
may go as far asa court claim which is easily defended if it
ever went that far. That is a bridge to cross if we ever come to
it, suffice it to say that we have a 99% success rate.
[/quote]
Thank you so so much
No benefit to including anything about not issuing a physical
ticket or the application to DVLA for unpaid fines when at that
point nothing was overdue?
E
#Post#: 40677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 14, 2024, 9:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: eyalmms link ---
>
> No benefit to including anything about not issuing a physical
ticket or the application to DVLA for unpaid fines when at that
point nothing was overdue?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, neither of those things are reasons the charge is not owed.
Parking companies are not required to issue a physical ticket on
the car windscreen. PPS' position is that the signage states
that breaching the terms of parking mean that the driver agrees
to pay £100 - at the time they contacted DVLA that £100 had not
been paid and therefore that balance is outstanding, so there's
not much mileage in that argument.
A couple of points for when we get to POPLA:
- That signage is rubbish! If you're able to get some more
photos of its layout and contents that could be handy - also
photos of the signage at the entrance to the private road
- As this is a private road case, it's always worth checking
with the relevant local council that it is indeed a private
road, and not an adopted highway
#Post#: 40678--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: eyalmms
Date: October 14, 2024, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=eyalmms link=topic=3446.msg40676#msg40676
date=1728913636]
> No benefit to including anything about not issuing a physical
ticket or the application to DVLA for unpaid fines when at that
point nothing was overdue?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, neither of those things are reasons the charge is not owed.
Parking companies are not required to issue a physical ticket on
the car windscreen. PPS' position is that the signage states
that breaching the terms of parking mean that the driver agrees
to pay £100 - at the time they contacted DVLA that £100 had not
been paid and therefore that balance is outstanding, so there's
not much mileage in that argument.
A couple of points for when we get to POPLA:
- That signage is rubbish! If you're able to get some more
photos of its layout and contents that could be handy - also
photos of the signage at the entrance to the private road
- As this is a private road case, it's always worth checking
with the relevant local council that it is indeed a private
road, and not an adopted highway
[/quote]
Harrow document from 2023 calling it an "unadopted highway"...
#Post#: 40681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
DIR By: b789
Date: October 14, 2024, 9:19 am
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Can you show us that document or a link to it please?
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