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#Post#: 66752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: April 12, 2025, 8:54 am
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--- Quote from: dbcc33 link ---
>
> my other question is do i upload everything i put at formal
appeal again ie the medical evidence etc or i presume they will
get that from the previous uploads and the council pack?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well in theory the Council's evidence pack should include
everything you sent to them, so you shouldn't need to send the
documents again. So check, have they omitted anything?
Regardless I would be inclined to include/upload all documents,
unredacted, that I want to bring to the Adjudicator's attention,
so I can more easily refer to them. And they can be more easily
located.
I know you are not relying on a Blue Badge exemption from the
parking restrictions and you are relying on the boarding /
alighting exemption. Regardless I would include pictures of both
sides of the Blue Badge as it lends credence to your assertion
that the passenger being alighted was indeed disabled. It makes
you more credible and not just making it up to get out of paying
the penalty.
And I wish you good luck.
#Post#: 66758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 12, 2025, 9:10 am
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OP, as I understand the sequence of events:
Parked; failed to display BB in prescribed manner; assisted your
vulnerable father to their house;
PCN issued;
You returned to retrieve shopping and noticed the PCN;
You can give this as the context.
But IMO, the defence against the PCN is assisted alighting
because this is what was happening while it was being issued.
The defence of assisted alighting applies only for the time
necessary to assist the person, so IMO don't introduce matters
around settling him in etc. because you don't know how these
might be received. By all means give this if you're asked.
#Post#: 67057--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: April 14, 2025, 10:19 am
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Thanks both,
@Andersen I want to make a slight correction to the order of
events:
Parked; failed to display BB in prescribed manner; assisted
vulnerable father to their house;
Returned to retrieve the shopping (unloaded the bags from the
boot, did not go to front of car)
After leaving shopping inside, returned to the car to drive off,
noticed the PCN.
So actually i don't know whether the PCN was issued whilst
assisted alighting or while onloading. In theory it could have
been either, but looking at the time of issue, it maybe more
likely it was during the latter. But in theory it could have
been there when i returned for the shopping but didn't notice
it.
That's why im asking whether i mention unloading or not here?
btw re settling, i mean make sure he was sat down with coat and
shoes off. Not having a cuppa tea! same with shopping, unloaded
the bag onto his table (not reorganising the kitchen
cupboards!)- both of which were needed as he cant do himself.
But OK, i get what you're saying, don't volunteer more detail
unless i get asked. that's fine.
#Post#: 67110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 14, 2025, 3:24 pm
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Everything you did was part of "assisted boarding activity". How
could it be otherwise when your father is incapable of carrying
the shopping, so two trips to his house are obviously necessary
as part of the assistance.
#Post#: 67129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 14, 2025, 5:55 pm
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As per Incandescent and your order of events:
Parked;
Assisted father to house;
Returned to collect his items (from boot of car) and delivered
them to his house;
Returned to car, sat in driver's seat and noticed PCN.
Do not know whether the PCN was served during the assisted
boarding or delivery phases, but I submit that each was an
exemption from the restriction and therefore the PCN should be
cancelled.
#Post#: 67150--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: April 15, 2025, 4:07 am
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OK thanks both. Will use that plus your original wording.
#Post#: 67219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: April 15, 2025, 8:21 am
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How about this as final version?
I was thinking of also appending the formal representation
again, together with the BB and medical evidence just for
completeness.
Summary of events.
Parked;
Assisted father to house;
Returned to collect his items (from boot of car) and delivered
them to his house;
Returned to car, sat in driver's seat and noticed PCN.
Do not know whether the PCN was served during the assisted
alighting or unloading phases, but I submit that each was an
exemption from the restriction and therefore the PCN should be
cancelled.
I refer the adjudicator to the council's evidence, in particular
this statement:
'In order for the boarding/alighting exemption to apply,
activity must be seen taking place. The Civil Enforcement
Officer noted the vehicle parked and unattended.'
I also refer to the council's references to previous PCNs which,
although gratuitous as regards this PCN, give ample supporting
evidence that I have a disabled father whom I transport
regularly and who holds a Blue Badge which, between the two of
us, manages on very rare occasions to dislodge on to the
seat/footwell because the demands placed upon me when assisting
my father can give rise to mistakes.
On this occasion, between us we didn’t display the badge
correctly and were this to be the basis of my appeal then I
could not take issue with being deemed to be in technical breach
of conditions.
But in this case my appeal (as regards the contravention) is
based upon the exemption under the Traffic Management Order of
alighting, in this case assisted alighting, which brings the
council's statement above into focus. As I understand it, an
exemption is an exemption. It is not mitigation or a request to
exercise discretion but an exemption. I respectfully suggest
that this may be exercised as and when the conditions are met. I
ask the adjudicator to infer from the council's statement that
they are seeking to modify its application, by misstating the
position in law, rather than examining a claim to satisfy
themselves that it applies. I respectfully suggest that
dismissing a defence of assisted alighting without proper
scrutiny of the owner's assertion is improper and would be a
procedural impropriety in itself as well as, in this case,
rejection of a legitimate exemption based upon a false legal
premise. I find it difficult to believe that the council have
applied their framework against me alone and therefore had they
checked their records and other adjudication decisions I believe
that it could be stated that, to use their words, 'they have
been advised on a number of occasions of the necessity and
importance and assessing representations against the correct
legal framework'. To reiterate, the council also failed to
consider the exemption both at informal and formal appeal
stages.
I also suggest that this applies in respect of the procedural
improprieties within the Notice of Rejection. As I understand
it, the basic mandatory wording regarding the 'Duties of an
Enforcement Authority as regards representations made' have
remained unaltered since the Regulations were first issued in
2008, since when adjudicators have stressed to authorities the
necessity and importance of conveying the meaning of these
duties correctly. In my case the NOR states:
'You have 28 days from the date of this letter being served
to..'
It then refers to the owner's statutory right to appeal and
their power to issue a Charge Certificate under this umbrella
condition.
However, the regulations stipulate that the applicable period is
no later than the end of the period of 28 days beginning on the
date of service, not from. I understand that adjudicators have
consistently found that whether the effects of the 'extra day'
are beneficial to the driver or not (and they cannot be as
regards the adjudicator's power to not register appeals made
late, even by one day) misstating these mandatory provisions is
grounds for allowing appeals for procedural impropriety.
I respectfully ask the adjudicator to find that the
contravention did not occur and that there have been procedural
improprieties by the authority and therefore allow my appeal.
#Post#: 67462--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: April 16, 2025, 4:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
hi all,
Wasnt sure whether to start a new thread or not but last night
my car was broken into outside of my dads house specifically to
steal my fathers BB!!! passenger side window smashed where bb
displayed and nothing else stolen!
i dont need advice on what to do as already notified police and
council BUT i was just wondering about the coincidence of
uploading the BB here together with the PCN with the location
and then this happening at the same time ! hopefully just a
coincidence but its the first time this has ever happened and it
just happened to be while i was posting here!
So i was wondering if it was possible for someone trawling these
threads to identify vulnerable BB holders to target?!
Anyway, needless to say it was easier for me to arrange
replacement of my smashed window than it was replacement of the
BB but now im really worried about being targeted in future. ie
if they had stolen valuables obviously you dont leave valuables,
but with a BB, they expect you to have it on display which it
seems makes you a target for burglars !!
This all tells me that actually the council should have a better
process like a virtual badge or QR code that wardens can scan
rather than a piece of card vulnerable to dropping off and being
stolen.
I'm still reeling from this and now makes me hesitant to even
display it but this leaves my father with no way of travelling
whatsoever- hes now stuck and i have to postpone hospital appts
because we wont be able to park close enough given with Easter
the council will take forever to replace.
And btw it cost more to replace my car window than a PCN!
Is there anyone i can write to at the council to tell them that
asking to display makes the car a target for criminals?!
Is this kind of crime on the rise?! I wonder what anyone could
do with it given everyone reports it as stolen and i presume it
gets cancelled/revoked straight away !
ugh everything to do with my car and caring for dad goes from
bad to worse. it's not being disabled thats the issue. its
societal treatment thats disabling!
#Post#: 67475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 16, 2025, 5:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> So i was wondering if it was possible for someone trawling
these threads to identify vulnerable BB holders to target?!
--- End Quote ---
Not on this forum unless you misguidedly showed your name and
address somewhere on the thread. Car reg cannot be used to find
out name and address, nor PCN Number. However, clearly somebody
of malicious intent within the council parking department can
obtain your address. Other aspect, of course, is whether you
have discussed this case with others you know.
#Post#: 67486--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: April 17, 2025, 2:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
>
--- End Quote ---
However, clearly somebody of malicious intent within the
council parking department can obtain your address.
[/quote]
wow - that happens?!
no haven't discussed this with anyone else. and i did redact the
documents but since it was able to be uploaded without redaction
maybe its too easy to unredact.
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