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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 43516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 1, 2024, 10:34 am
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Assisted alighting - safely escorting your father to home and
returning to car, taking only so long as necessary. See recent
adjudicated cases below on boarding but alighting is the same.
The NTO is issued at £110 but they often reoffer the discount if
they reject to try and stop you taking it to the tribunal.
Buy a decent holder!
------------
2240406329
The CEO's images show Mrs xxxxx's car stopped on the single
yellow line during the controlled hours. Mrs xxxxx appeals
because she says that her husband was stopped to pick up their
young child from xxxxx. The PCN was issued at 3.32pm. There was
no observation period by the CEO before the PCN was issued and
Mr xxxx says that he was away from the car for around 5 minutes.
He says that he saw the CEO on returning to the car and
explained what he had been doing. Mr xxxx tells me that his
child is eight years old and must be collected from within the
School premises.
I am satisfied from the evidence that Mr xxxx was picking up his
child from school and that the picking up exemption therefore
applies. The exemption allows a motorist to leave a vehicle
where a passenger needs to be escorted or assisted as is clearly
the case with young children.
2240435225
The CEO's images show that Ms xxxx's car was parked on a single
yellow line and it is not disputed that this was during the
controlled hours of the CPZ. There was an observation period of
only 2 minutes before the PCN was issued. Ms xxxx says that she
was away from the car for around 3 minutes to collect her young
child from the family home. She says that she had to help her
child put on his shoes and coat.
I am satisfied from the evidence that the picking up exemption
applies in this case. A motorist may leave a vehicle to assist a
passenger with the boarding process and this may include
accompanying a person to the vehicle where this is necessary,
such as in the case of a young child. I regard helping a child
to put on his coat and shoes to be part of the process and not a
separate activity.
#Post#: 43525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 1, 2024, 11:15 am
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OP, assisted alighting is presumably an exemption in permit
bays. The passenger's frailty is only part of the argument, the
rest is whether you took only as long as necessary to assist
them to their destination and then return to the car to move it
out of contravention.
Stamfordman's wording is succinct and addresses the required
elements.
So I suggest you make the statement if you decide to continue
and flesh out with something like:
As regards the passenger's need to be assisted, he is my **
year-old father who suffers from ****. I was escorting him to
**** where I left him while I returned promptly to the car. (if
true). It is this last part which only you can answer.
One could take the view that if you placed the BB then you
intended to stay for a while, which doesn't meet the assisted
alighting conditions. But this could be countered by saying that
you placed the BB because this would avoid what happened in this
case which is that the CEO saw the car and nothing else as you
were engaged in assisting your father away from the car.
#Post#: 43527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 1, 2024, 11:37 am
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Here's an assisted alighting case decided this week.
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2240372023
Reasons
attended in person but the Enforcement Authority did not attend
and were not represented.
A contravention can occur if a vehicle is parked, waiting,
loading or unloading in restricted street when a waiting,
loading/unloading restriction is in force.
There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was at this
location, or that the Penalty Charge Notice was issued to it, as
shown in the photographs/digital images produced by the
Enforcement Authority.
The Appellant’s case is that is that he is a licenced private
hire vehicle driver and was setting down a disabled passenger at
the Premier Inn Hotel and had to assist him to the premises. The
Appellant adds that when he returned, he explained this to the
civil enforcement officer, who does not record this.
Picking up and setting down of passengers is permitted at this
location. It should normally take no longer than two minutes but
slightly longer must be allowed in the case of the elderly,
disabled or very young, who may have to be escorted to nearby
premises.
I have had the opportunity of hearing the Appellant personally
and accept what he tells me.
Considering all the evidence before me carefully I find as a
fact that, at the material time, picking up/setting down within
the meaning of the exemption was taking place and thus a
contravention did not occur.
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.
#Post#: 43562--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 1, 2024, 3:48 pm
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Thank you both for your very helpful answers.
My case is similar to the taxi drivers in that my dad is 85
frail and disabled needing assistance (which can be medically
proven).
What is the more tricky part is that I took the minimum time
needed to do what i had to do which was assist my dad into the
house making sure he didnt fall and into his room safely helping
with coat and shoes, plus unload his shopping and then return to
the car. So i suppose this case will rest on whether they
consider unloading the shopping an essential assistive task or
not. He needs it doing as he cant do it himself but i dont know
how this will be perceived.
But thats the truth and i dont know if the 7 min observation
period counts against me although the photos only show 1 min but
the ticket says 7.
#Post#: 43563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 1, 2024, 4:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
plus unload his shopping and then return to the car.
?
His shopping was in the car to which you returned or you took
his shopping with you when helping him to the house and then
distributed this within his house?
If you returned to the car to unload goods then this is a
separate excepted activity.
#Post#: 43588--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 2, 2024, 5:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
first i assisted him into the house and sat him down, then i
returned to the car and unloaded this shopping from the boot and
set the shopping in his house and then returned my large empty
shopping bag to the boot, before getting in to drive off and
that's when i noticed the pcn. ie the total time away from the
car was including off loading the shopping as well as him.
#Post#: 43590--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 2, 2024, 6:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am not doubting your account, but pl recognise and somehow
address in any reps - you've yet to receive a NTO- the issue of
2 separate journeys and a return to the car before a PCN had
been served.
IMO, a more likely sequence of events was:
You parked and assisted your father. No CEO and no obs;
You returned to your car to collect shopping; still no CEO or
obs;
CEO appears while you were unloading shopping.
#Post#: 43594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 2, 2024, 6:26 am
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well this is what i dont actually know because i didnt notice
(but then didnt look for) any pcn until at the end when i
returned to drive off. it could have happened as you said but it
could also have been there when i returned the first time but
didnt see it because i only went to the boot not the front.
all i know with certainty is that is that i wasnt away from the
car that long in total- so maybe few minutes each time. in
hindsight i should have looked at the exact time of pcn issue as
soon as i saw it, but as i was in a rush i drove off and only
opened the pcn later on. so i cannot recall exact time points.
Only that i dont think i took over 7 mins for each activity but
doing everything, assisting alighting and offloading shopping
could have in total exceeded that time.
is it not possible that the ceo observed when i was assisting
dad into the house and the issued ticket when i was unloading
shopping?
in any case does it matter? the question is whether or not i
have a strong case for exemption or whther it is weakened by the
shopping issue. fwiw i can prove he needs assistance with
shopping. that was the reason i drove him back. we went to do
his shopping.
#Post#: 43595--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 2, 2024, 6:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Bear in mind the context also includes blue badge entitlement.
If Harrow reject formal reps I'm inclined to think an
adjudicator would take this into account as bolstering the
alighting exemption but as said the exemption does need careful
wording to stick to no longer than necessary.
Returning to get shopping is good as that shows assistance could
not involve also coping with shopping IMO. And no doubt
unloading is also an exemption...
See also a case I posted - the adjudicator also considered time
to get a child into their shoes and coat was OK and was part of
process.
#Post#: 43598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: November 2, 2024, 6:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
yes exactly that stamfordman, i could either assist my dad into
the house or carry shopping into the house - i could not have
done both together hence the 2 trips, sorry if that wasnt clear
on my original post but i didnt mention offloading shopping as
well as him. in hindsight again should have done the other way
round as if i did shopping first then dad would have still been
in car.
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