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#Post#: 40672--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: October 14, 2024, 7:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To answer the earlier question.
The Harrow website suggests
HTML https://www.harrow.gov.uk/parking-permits/controlled-parking-zones<br
/>that parking in the Residents' bays is allowed where a Blue
Badge is displayed. This is not unique to Harrow. Some London
Boroughs allow BB parking and some don't.
"When can I park in a CPZ
..........................
Do you need a parking permit?
A parking permit is not required for:
vehicles displaying a Blue Badge
motorcycles parked in either pay-and-display bays or in resident
bays.
If you have three or more unpaid Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs),
you can't get a parking permit. This applies to both Resident
and Business permits.
.........................."
#Post#: 41140--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: October 17, 2024, 4:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How about this?
I had parked at this location for 5-10mins only to drop-off my
disabled father at his home and was entitled to park there as he
is a Blue Badge holder (BB enclosed), which I checked was
displayed on the dash.
However, as my father is physically and cognitively impaired, he
needs assistance offloading the car and into the house and I
recall him leaning in to get his walking stick and dragging it
along dash and seat to exit the car. I was focusing on my
father's wellbeing (he has restricted mobility and is a falls
risk-medical evidence enclosed) and assisting him into the
house, upon my return I realised one half of the BB (the blue
holder had disintegrated and it had therefore separated into 2
halves) had fallen to the passenger side footwell and I already
had a PCN!
If the CEO had checked the side window he may well have seen the
fallen BB (I don't see any side photos).
Under the circumstances, please could you consider discretion
since it is clear no charges were being evaded.
#Post#: 41143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 17, 2024, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
a few tweaks - I wouldn't go into detail on the BB holder
I had parked at this location for 5-10mins only to drop-off my
disabled father at his home and was entitled to park there owing
to the exemption of transporting a Blue Badge holder (BB
enclosed), which I checked was displayed on the dash.
However, as my father is physically and cognitively impaired, he
needs assistance offloading the car and into the house and I
recall him leaning in to get his walking stick and dragging it
along dash and seat to exit the car. I was focusing on my
father's wellbeing (he has restricted mobility and is a falls
risk-medical evidence enclosed) and assisting him into the
house, upon my return I realised one half of the BB (the blue
holder had disintegrated and it had therefore separated into 2
halves) had fallen to the passenger side footwell and I already
had a PCN!
If the CEO had checked the side window he may well have seen the
fallen BB (I don't see any side photos).
Under the circumstances, please could you consider discretion
since it is clear we were entitled to the exemption.
#Post#: 41157--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 17, 2024, 5:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> he needs assistance offloading the car
--- End Quote ---
I think he might need a lot of assistance offloading the car - a
crane? :)
perhaps alighting? exiting? getting out of? followed by 'and
getting into the house'?
#Post#: 41181--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: October 17, 2024, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you stamfordman and John - actually he does need quite a
lot of assistance offloading but i take your point hes not an
elephant - maybe alighting is a better word :)
actually youve raised an important point - out of curiousity
does such an exemption exist for loading/assisting elderly in
residents bays without a BB - what do you do if you need to get
someone to their home and they need assistance and there is no
parking provision?
i.e. are there circumstances where you would have been allowed
to offload/alight even without a BB in a residents bay?
interestingly that whole road used to be free - he has lived
there for 60 years, they just made it permit only from 10am-11am
to stop people leaving cars there and going to work on the tube.
Now its silly things like this residents are being punished for.
#Post#: 41189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 17, 2024, 7:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You raise a very good point we should have thought of and should
be added.
Assisted alighting/boarding is an exemption to most parking
restrictions but should take no more than necessary.
I would remove the 5-10 mins time, changing to just assisting
father to home and then leaving, and add in:
Please note that assisted alighting of a disabled or vulnerable
person to nearby premises is an exemption should you choose not
to exercise discretion on the mishap with the blue badge.
Post another draft.
#Post#: 41197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 17, 2024, 8:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Is it? While assisted alighting etc. is a commonplace exemption
determined by individual councils, I'm not certain it's
statutory.
OP, why don't you start your challenge by simply setting out the
events as regards you parking, your passenger, their condition
etc. Then argue your case.
On this point, just stand back and think about this:
'..he has lived there for 60 years, they just made it permit
only from 10am-11am to stop people leaving cars there and going
to work on the tube. Now its silly things like this residents
are being punished for.'.
?
In order for you to be able to park there must be kerbside space
which there wouldn't be if the road was full of commuters' cars.
Therefore all residents, your father included, benefit from
access being created.
Don't knock it.
You got a PCN pure and simply because the vigilant CEO had no
idea of your situation and prima facie you were parked in
contravention. Frankly, even if they saw the clock or even the
outline of a BB in the footwell there's no reason for them to
suppose anything: issue a PCN as required and if the driver had
proper cause to park there then that's an end to matters after
they've explained this to the authority.
I would temper your reps accordingly. The fault, if any, is not
your father's, the authority's or the CEO's..it's yours.
#Post#: 41206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 17, 2024, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There are numerous adjudicated cases that recognise assisted
alighting/boarding as an exemption. Such as this the other day:
[i]I am satisfied from the evidence that Mr xxxx was picking up
his child from school and that the picking up exemption
therefore applies. The exemption allows a motorist to leave a
vehicle where a passenger needs to be escorted or assisted as is
clearly the case with young children.[/I]
The draft reps are fine and can be reinforced politely with
this.
#Post#: 41249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: dbcc33
Date: October 17, 2024, 10:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Revised draft reps below
I had parked at this location only to drop-off my disabled
father at his home and was entitled to park there as per the
exemption of transporting a Blue Badge holder (BB enclosed),
which I checked was displayed on the dash.
However, as my father is physically and cognitively impaired, he
needs assistance alighting the car and getting into the house
and I recall him leaning in to get his walking stick and
dragging it along dash and seat to exit the car. I was focusing
on my father's wellbeing (he has restricted mobility and is a
falls risk-medical evidence enclosed) and assisting him into the
house, upon my return I realised one half of the BB had fallen
to the passenger side footwell and I already had a PCN!
Had the CEO checked the side window he may have seen the fallen
BB (there are no side photos).
Under the circumstances, please could you consider discretion
since it is clear we were entitled to the exemption. Please note
that assisted alighting of a disabled or vulnerable person to
nearby premises is an exemption (Tribunal ref. #) if you choose
not to exercise discretion on the BB mishap.
[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] - do you have a tribunal ref
for that quote you put about picking up children that I can
insert? I assumed thats what you meant rather than copy and
paste that?
@ Anderson - I never denied that not rechecking the BB position
was my mistake, but equally as someone pointed out it was hardly
on my mind assisting my dad out of the car (and i had no reason
to because i didnt see him knock it and i had previously checked
it before assisting him) and i did return within some minutes
and it was too late. the reality is if i was to go back and look
after he got out that's quite hard while holding at the same
time...therefore i think it is strong mitigation. the badge and
the proof he is disabled (even without the badge) provides
evidence of this.
#Post#: 41253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB
holder, half of badge fell off dashboard
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 17, 2024, 11:12 am
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You don't need to cite tribunal cases in informal challenges.
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