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#Post#: 40064--------------------------------------------------
PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: FieldMan
Date: October 9, 2024, 5:14 pm
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Hi Everybody,
I am trying to sort out this PCN for my Ukrainian Neighbour. I
try to help him here and then with admin but at the moment I'm
not sure what the best course of action is without causing
additional problems for him.
He received a PCN from Civil Enforcement a few weeks after
parking at Luton airport in the middle of the night. He kept the
ticket as proof of parking, which looks like a valid ticket and
payment, so I appealed on the 6th of July 2024. A month or so
later he receives a reminder and an increased penalty. I
appealed again through their website on the 24th of August
asking them to reply to the original appeal (included as an
attachment in the second appeal) and I flagged that the increase
in the penalty is against their policy as noted on their
website.
This week my neighbor received a "Final" notice, again, an
increase in penalty. However, He has not heard back from Civil
Enforcement.
I can appeal again, trying to trigger their internal systems to
review his case, but I fear it will keep escalating. I have
appealed to various PCNs in the past and I always got some reply
within a month or so. Civil Enforcement only silence... On their
website the status of the appeal is "received".
The phone numbers listed on the website point to an online
payment system, there is not a single number I can find anywhere
so I can talk to a real person. They must have some people
working there in a building with phones and email addresses.
Does anybody have some experience dealing with this company? Any
tips or advice is greatly appreciated.
Some images/proofs if required:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/iD6hOlB
Thanks,
#Post#: 40066--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 9, 2024, 5:20 pm
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This is a private parking invoice and I've asked for move to
correct section.
#Post#: 40082--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL
DIR By: b789
Date: October 9, 2024, 6:19 pm
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What has the hotel said about getting the PCN cancelled?
The most important document we need to see is the original
Notice to Keeper (NtK). Please show us that. All the other stuff
you’ve shown, apart from the content of the appeal, is not
required.
You have obviously appealed as the driver rather than the keeper
which probably complicates things, but we’ll know better once we
see the NtK.
#Post#: 40100--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL
DIR By: FieldMan
Date: October 10, 2024, 3:32 am
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Hi b789,
Thanks for your reply.
There was no issue of NtK, as far as I know. Just a PCN.
I have not contacted IBIS now, which I will do this morning. I
have appealed before directly to the PCN issuer, especially if I
have clear proof of payment and there is some sort of confusion
that can be easily fixed. I believe this case is because I have
a clear parking ticket, dated, timed, and on the car reg. I am
just finding the lack of ways of communicating with Civil
Enforcement a problem. I found out this is a shell company split
over 5 countries on all the continents. So I am going to stop
trying to find an owner/contact.
Thanks,
#Post#: 40101--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: mickR
Date: October 10, 2024, 3:40 am
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You should note you have made mistakes in the way youve gone
about this. the important one in particular is telling them who
was driving whatever "evidence" you have.
unfortunate you chose to appeal before coming here.
your comments about Civil Enforcement being a shell company
doesn't sound right to me.
#Post#: 40102--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 10, 2024, 3:42 am
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--- Quote ---
> There was no issue of NtK, as far as I know. Just a PCN
--- End Quote ---
Was this parking charge notice (PCN) issued by post, and
addressed to the keeper? If so, it is a notice to keeper
(whether it is compliant such that it could hold the registered
keeper liable is another matter).
We need to see that document.
Civil Enforcement are unlikely to care how strong your case is.
You're not dealing with a reasonable firm.
#Post#: 40107--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: FieldMan
Date: October 10, 2024, 4:13 am
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Hi MickR and DWMB2,
I understand a bit better now the need for a NtK, however, since
Civil Enforcement has not replied in any way to my initial and
second appeal which I did months ago, I doubt that telling them
off for not sending a NtK would make any difference in any case.
They just don't respond. They seem to rely on people just paying
at some point to stay out of the big trouble. I have had good
experience with various PCN issuers private and council in the
past. When you show evidence, and explain the situation, often &
quickly the case is closed.
I don't have a scan of the original PCN but I can try to raffle
it up.
Since we have clear evidence of payment, if this goes to a debt
collection would this be taken into account, perhaps this is
better as at least there might be a human at the other end of
the line? Can debt collection even legally begin if there are
unresolved appeals? Without a POPLA I can't even escalate this
further...
I don't understand how companies such as Civil Enforcement
Limited are allowed to operate in this country, no contact
details, only offshore shells. All money made from these PCN's
to through back doors all over the world. And somewhere somebody
is lying in a swimming pool drinking margaritas from them....
But okay that is a different matter.
I have sent an email to IBIS Luton asking for their assistance.
Fingers crossed.
Thanks everybody.
#Post#: 40111--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: Dave65
Date: October 10, 2024, 4:22 am
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You should stop trying to phone these people, they do not care a
jot about your circumstances and just want your moneu.
Debt collectors have no powers and should be ignored, do NOT
phone them.
#Post#: 40112--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: b789
Date: October 10, 2024, 4:27 am
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You need to understand that you are not dealing with some woke
corporate firm with a fluffy customer service ethos. Get it into
your head that you are dealing with a firm of ex-clamper thugs
who are only interested in how low you hang as fruit on the
gullible tree.
By making it easy to pick you off that tree, you are not helping
yourself. We know what we are dealing with here. We deal with
this multiple times every day. We know the procedures and how to
beat these scammers.
So, please answer the original question... where is the original
NtK? We are not interested in any reminders or debt collector
letters. Only the original NtK will do.
#Post#: 40113--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Luton AIRPORT IBIS HOTEL - Civil Enforcement
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 10, 2024, 4:28 am
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--- Quote from: FieldMan link ---
>
> I doubt that telling them off for not sending a NtK would make
any difference in any case.
>
--- End Quote ---
What? Nobody has suggested "telling them off for not sending an
NtK" - we are saying you have already been sent an NtK through
the post - and as this details the alleged basis of the claim
against you, we could do with seeing it.
--- Quote from: FieldMan link ---
>
> I have had good experience with various PCN issuers private
and council in the past.
--- End Quote ---
That is good, but you have been immensely fortunate - if that
were commonplace, this forum would not need to exist.
--- Quote from: FieldMan link ---
>
> Since we have clear evidence of payment, if this goes to a
debt collection would this be taken into account, perhaps this
is better as at least there might be a human at the other end of
the line? Can debt collection even legally begin if there are
unresolved appeals? Without a POPLA I can't even escalate this
further...
--- End Quote ---
Yes it can - at present this is a largely unregulated industry.
Debt collectors are even less reasonable than parking firms -
they don't care about any conversation that doesn't involve
payment.
You seem intent on speaking to someone via phone - this is
generally a bad idea. If you communicate in writing, you have a
record of everything said (or not said, if you don't get a
response). With a phone call, you have nothing.
--- Quote from: FieldMan link ---
>
> I don't understand how companies such as Civil Enforcement
Limited are allowed to operate in this country, no contact
details, only offshore shells.
--- End Quote ---
Every PCN I've seen from Civil Enforcement contains contact
details - at the bare minimum their registered office address at
which they can be contacted. In an ideal world such companies
wouldn't be operating, but we advise on the nature of things as
they are, rather than as we may wish them to be.
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