DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 43950--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 4, 2024, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, the appeal period to IAS is, according to the rejection,
'within 21 days of this rejection.'
>
> Putting ambiguity to one side(from the date of the rejection
or its service) what was the date and how received?
>
--- End Quote ---
Appeal reply was received on 31st October at 09.30 via email. I
will ask him to send cpm an email to chase up on that notice
#Post#: 43951--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 4, 2024, 1:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
He cannot appeal to IAS.
Why?
This is a 'trade' procedure, not a regulatory body.
They will not deal with appeals other than from the driver,
hirer or keeper because this would be outwith their Accredited
Trade Association Code of Practice.
Your friend cannot insert themselves into this procedure,
whether based on the creditor's misunderstanding or not, UNLESS
they want to admit to being driver or give the creditor a belief
that they were the driver which I would strongly recommend they
do not.
#Post#: 43975--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 4, 2024, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> He cannot appeal to IAS.
>
> Why?
>
> This is a 'trade' procedure, not a regulatory body.
>
> They will not deal with appeals other than from the driver,
hirer or keeper because this would be outwith their Accredited
Trade Association Code of Practice.
>
> Your friend cannot insert themselves into this procedure,
whether based on the creditor's misunderstanding or not, UNLESS
they want to admit to being driver or give the creditor a belief
that they were the driver which I would strongly recommend they
do not.
>
--- End Quote ---
Appeal to IAS on the basis that CPM has said he is liable when
in fact he shouldn't be liable. As several people have pointed
out it is s legal conundrum, so if CPM have mentioned that he is
responsible, he'll challenge saying he can't be held responsible
for it.on top of the other appeal points mentioned.
The issue here is that Tusker being Tusker will most likely
charge him and pay. If it was a normal lease where transfer of
liability would have been done properly, i wouldn't ask him to
bother but i just want to make sure that everything has been
covered.
#Post#: 44784--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 9, 2024, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good evening all.
My friend has finally received the PCN under his name. It seems
that he is now able to appeal under his name. Should i get him
to do that? Thanks
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2KTmKnt/IMG-20241109-WA0054-2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/12kh2vq
HTML https://i.ibb.co/TkKnCPd/IMG-20241109-WA0055.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/hyXnq2w
#Post#: 44849--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: b789
Date: November 10, 2024, 12:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That’s much better. Re-read the PCN and note that only the
driver is liable for the charge. Technically, the recipient
isn’t the Hirer, their employer is. However, as previously
mentioned, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished
people.
It is not an NtH although it does state that the recipient has
been named as the Hirer. As a PCN, CPMUK cannot rely on the
provisions of PoFA to hold the recipient liable for the charge.
They state throughout the PCN that only the driver is liable.
As they still have no idea who the driver is and the PCN offers
28 days from the day after the date the notice is given
(Wednesday 6th November) to appeal it, your friend now has until
Wednesday 4th December to submit the appeal.
Simply appeal as the Hirer (even though, technically, they are
not) with the following:
--- Quote ---
> I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.
>
> As your Parking Charge Notice does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer
of the vehicle liable for the charge. There will be no admission
as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be
drawn. CPMUK has relied on contract law allegations of breach
against the driver only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your PCN can only hold the driver liable. CPMUK have
no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete
waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully, this will finally be resolved if CPMUK accept defeat,
although I highly doubt they will. This will then move on to IAS
if your friend wants to bother with that kangaroo court.
I believe that the most likely outcome come is now going to be a
claim which is easily defended and will, ultimately be
discontinued, struck out or simply won.
#Post#: 45085--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 11, 2024, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> That’s much better. Re-read the PCN and note that only the
driver is liable for the charge. Technically, the recipient
isn’t the Hirer, their employer is. However, as previously
mentioned, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished
people.
>
> It is not an NtH although it does state that the recipient has
been named as the Hirer. As a PCN, CPMUK cannot rely on the
provisions of PoFA to hold the recipient liable for the charge.
They state throughout the PCN that only the driver is liable.
>
> As they still have no idea who the driver is and the PCN
offers 28 days from the day after the date the notice is given
(Wednesday 6th November) to appeal it, your friend now has until
Wednesday 4th December to submit the appeal.
>
> Simply appeal as the Hirer (even though, technically, they are
not) with the following:
>
> [quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your
'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.
>
> As your Parking Charge Notice does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer
of the vehicle liable for the charge. There will be no admission
as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be
drawn. CPMUK has relied on contract law allegations of breach
against the driver only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your PCN can only hold the driver liable. CPMUK have
no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete
waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully, this will finally be resolved if CPMUK accept defeat,
although I highly doubt they will. This will then move on to IAS
if your friend wants to bother with that kangaroo court.
I believe that the most likely outcome come is now going to be a
claim which is easily defended and will, ultimately be
discontinued, struck out or simply won.
[/quote]
Although it says the appeal can be appealed but upon trying to
appeal i am getting an error
"This PCN has already been appealed
Please contact us if you wish to enquire about this PCN"
I have taken a screenshot of this. Should i directly appeal to
IAS saying that a new notice has been sent however my friend is
unable to appeal?
I guess they can't create a new pcn reference number on their
system. Could this be why they were reluctant to transfer
liability?
#Post#: 45087--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: b789
Date: November 11, 2024, 1:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just send it to them as a complaint. The IAS is not going to
accept an appeal.
#Post#: 46098--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 18, 2024, 12:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: S.M link ---
>
> [quote author=b789 link=topic=3382.msg44849#msg44849
date=1731221504]
> That’s much better. Re-read the PCN and note that only the
driver is liable for the charge. Technically, the recipient
isn’t the Hirer, their employer is. However, as previously
mentioned, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished
people.
>
> It is not an NtH although it does state that the recipient has
been named as the Hirer. As a PCN, CPMUK cannot rely on the
provisions of PoFA to hold the recipient liable for the charge.
They state throughout the PCN that only the driver is liable.
>
> As they still have no idea who the driver is and the PCN
offers 28 days from the day after the date the notice is given
(Wednesday 6th November) to appeal it, your friend now has until
Wednesday 4th December to submit the appeal.
>
> Simply appeal as the Hirer (even though, technically, they are
not) with the following:
>
> [quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your
'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.
>
> As your Parking Charge Notice does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer
of the vehicle liable for the charge. There will be no admission
as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be
drawn. CPMUK has relied on contract law allegations of breach
against the driver only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your PCN can only hold the driver liable. CPMUK have
no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete
waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully, this will finally be resolved if CPMUK accept defeat,
although I highly doubt they will. This will then move on to IAS
if your friend wants to bother with that kangaroo court.
I believe that the most likely outcome come is now going to be a
claim which is easily defended and will, ultimately be
discontinued, struck out or simply won.
[/quote]
Although it says the appeal can be appealed but upon trying to
appeal i am getting an error
"This PCN has already been appealed
Please contact us if you wish to enquire about this PCN"
I have taken a screenshot of this. Should i directly appeal to
IAS saying that a new notice has been sent however my friend is
unable to appeal?
I guess they can't create a new pcn reference number on their
system. Could this be why they were reluctant to transfer
liability?
[/quote]
Having raised a complaint to them - they have sent the below
response, they seem to be saying that my friend needs to use the
previous issued PCN (which wasn`t under his name ) to appeal.
Should I now proceed with the IAS appeal and add that there`s a
new PCN issued but they will not allow me to appeal? And should
I also raise this with the IPC via
HTML https://www.theipc.info/
?
--- Code ---
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your email.
All correspondence regarding a disputed Parking Charge Notice
(PCN) must follow the correct appeals process.
Within 21 days of the appeal response:
If you are unhappy with your appeal response and are within 21
days from the date your appeal was rejected, you can submit a
Standard Appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). Please
refer to the information provided within your response on how to
do so.
www.theIAS.org
The Independent Appeals Service is the alternative dispute
resolution scheme of our governing body, the International
Parking Community.
Outside 21 days of the appeal response:
If you would like to appeal further but the 21 days to appeal
as a Standard Appeal has elapsed, you will need to write to the
Appeals department requesting to submit a Non-Standard Appeal
with the Independent Appeals Service (IAS).
Please write to the address provided below:
Appeal Department
UK Car Park Management Ltd
PO BOX 3114
Lancing
BN15 5BR
Please note, a £15.00 fee is payable to the IAS when
submitting a Non-Standard Appeal.
Unfortunately, as we are unable to discuss a dispute, all
further correspondence relating to the Parking Charge Notice via
this email address will not be responded to.
Kind Regards
Info Team
--- End Code ---
#Post#: 46104--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: b789
Date: November 18, 2024, 1:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Did you send it as a formal complaint? Use the words "formal
complaint" as many times as you think necessary to get through
their thick skulls that this is not an appeal.
The IAS is a farce and they are thieving bar-stewards if they
think anyone who is getting advice here is going to waste £15 on
them.
#Post#: 47077--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 26, 2024, 6:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Did you send it as a formal complaint? Use the words "formal
complaint" as many times as you think necessary to get through
their thick skulls that this is not an appeal.
>
> The IAS is a farce and they are thieving bar-stewards if they
think anyone who is getting advice here is going to waste £15 on
them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes used the words formal complaint - sent one again let`s see
what they say
*****************************************************
Page 6 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page