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       #Post#: 43950--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: S.M
       Date: November 4, 2024, 1:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
       >
       > OP, the appeal period to IAS is, according to the rejection,
       'within 21 days of this rejection.'
       >
       > Putting ambiguity to one side(from the date of the rejection
       or its service) what was the date and how received?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Appeal reply was received on 31st October at 09.30 via email. I
       will ask him to send cpm an email to chase up on that notice
       #Post#: 43951--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: November 4, 2024, 1:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       He cannot appeal to IAS.
       Why?
       This is a 'trade' procedure, not a regulatory body.
       They will not deal with appeals other than from the driver,
       hirer or keeper because this would be outwith their Accredited
       Trade Association Code of Practice.
       Your friend cannot insert themselves into this procedure,
       whether based on the creditor's misunderstanding or not, UNLESS
       they want to admit to being driver or give the creditor a belief
       that they were the driver which I would strongly recommend they
       do not.
       #Post#: 43975--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: S.M
       Date: November 4, 2024, 2:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
       >
       > He cannot appeal to IAS.
       >
       > Why?
       >
       > This is a 'trade' procedure, not a regulatory body.
       >
       > They will not deal with appeals other than from the driver,
       hirer or keeper because this would be outwith their Accredited
       Trade Association Code of Practice.
       >
       > Your friend cannot insert themselves into this procedure,
       whether based on the creditor's misunderstanding or not, UNLESS
       they want to admit to being driver or give the creditor a belief
       that they were the driver which I would strongly recommend they
       do not.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Appeal to IAS on the basis that CPM has said he is liable when
       in fact he shouldn't be liable. As several people have pointed
       out it is s legal conundrum, so if CPM have mentioned that he is
       responsible, he'll challenge saying he can't be held responsible
       for it.on top of the other appeal points mentioned.
       The issue here is that Tusker being Tusker will most likely
       charge him and pay. If it was a normal lease where transfer of
       liability would have been done properly, i wouldn't ask him to
       bother but i just want to make sure that everything has been
       covered.
       #Post#: 44784--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: S.M
       Date: November 9, 2024, 12:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Good evening all.
       My friend has finally received the PCN under his name. It seems
       that he is now able to appeal under his name. Should i get him
       to do that? Thanks
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/2KTmKnt/IMG-20241109-WA0054-2.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/12kh2vq
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/TkKnCPd/IMG-20241109-WA0055.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/hyXnq2w
       #Post#: 44849--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: b789
       Date: November 10, 2024, 12:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       That’s much better. Re-read the PCN and note that only the
       driver is liable for the charge. Technically, the recipient
       isn’t the Hirer, their employer is. However, as previously
       mentioned, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished
       people.
       It is not an NtH although it does state that the recipient has
       been named as the Hirer. As a PCN, CPMUK cannot rely on the
       provisions of PoFA to hold the recipient liable for the charge.
       They state throughout the PCN that only the driver is liable.
       As they still have no idea who the driver is and the PCN offers
       28 days from the day after the date the notice is given
       (Wednesday 6th November) to appeal it, your friend now has until
       Wednesday 4th December to submit the appeal.
       Simply appeal as the Hirer (even though, technically, they are
       not) with the following:
       --- Quote ---
       > I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
       charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.
       >
       > As your Parking Charge Notice does not fully comply with ALL
       the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer
       of the vehicle liable for the charge. There will be no admission
       as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be
       drawn. CPMUK has relied on contract law allegations of breach
       against the driver only.
       >
       > The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
       driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
       of agency. Your PCN can only hold the driver liable. CPMUK have
       no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete
       waste of time and cancel the PCN.
       --- End Quote ---
       Hopefully, this will finally be resolved if CPMUK accept defeat,
       although I highly doubt they will. This will then move on to IAS
       if your friend wants to bother with that kangaroo court.
       I believe that the most likely outcome come is now going to be a
       claim which is easily defended and will, ultimately be
       discontinued, struck out or simply won.
       #Post#: 45085--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: S.M
       Date: November 11, 2024, 12:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: b789 link ---
       >
       > That’s much better. Re-read the PCN and note that only the
       driver is liable for the charge. Technically, the recipient
       isn’t the Hirer, their employer is. However, as previously
       mentioned, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished
       people.
       >
       > It is not an NtH although it does state that the recipient has
       been named as the Hirer. As a PCN, CPMUK cannot rely on the
       provisions of PoFA to hold the recipient liable for the charge.
       They state throughout the PCN that only the driver is liable.
       >
       > As they still have no idea who the driver is and the PCN
       offers 28 days from the day after the date the notice is given
       (Wednesday 6th November) to appeal it, your friend now has until
       Wednesday 4th December to submit the appeal.
       >
       > Simply appeal as the Hirer (even though, technically, they are
       not) with the following:
       >
       > [quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your
       'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.
       >
       > As your Parking Charge Notice does not fully comply with ALL
       the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer
       of the vehicle liable for the charge. There will be no admission
       as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be
       drawn. CPMUK has relied on contract law allegations of breach
       against the driver only.
       >
       > The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
       driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
       of agency. Your PCN can only hold the driver liable. CPMUK have
       no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete
       waste of time and cancel the PCN.
       --- End Quote ---
       Hopefully, this will finally be resolved if CPMUK accept defeat,
       although I highly doubt they will. This will then move on to IAS
       if your friend wants to bother with that kangaroo court.
       I believe that the most likely outcome come is now going to be a
       claim which is easily defended and will, ultimately be
       discontinued, struck out or simply won.
       [/quote]
       Although it says the appeal can be appealed but upon trying to
       appeal i am getting an error
       "This PCN has already been appealed
       Please contact us if you wish to enquire about this PCN"
       I have taken a screenshot of this. Should i directly appeal to
       IAS saying that a new notice has been sent however my friend is
       unable to appeal?
       I guess they can't create a new pcn reference number on their
       system. Could this be why they were reluctant to transfer
       liability?
       #Post#: 45087--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: b789
       Date: November 11, 2024, 1:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Just send it to them as a complaint. The IAS is not going to
       accept an appeal.
       #Post#: 46098--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: S.M
       Date: November 18, 2024, 12:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: S.M link ---
       >
       > [quote author=b789 link=topic=3382.msg44849#msg44849
       date=1731221504]
       > That’s much better. Re-read the PCN and note that only the
       driver is liable for the charge. Technically, the recipient
       isn’t the Hirer, their employer is. However, as previously
       mentioned, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished
       people.
       >
       > It is not an NtH although it does state that the recipient has
       been named as the Hirer. As a PCN, CPMUK cannot rely on the
       provisions of PoFA to hold the recipient liable for the charge.
       They state throughout the PCN that only the driver is liable.
       >
       > As they still have no idea who the driver is and the PCN
       offers 28 days from the day after the date the notice is given
       (Wednesday 6th November) to appeal it, your friend now has until
       Wednesday 4th December to submit the appeal.
       >
       > Simply appeal as the Hirer (even though, technically, they are
       not) with the following:
       >
       > [quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your
       'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.
       >
       > As your Parking Charge Notice does not fully comply with ALL
       the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer
       of the vehicle liable for the charge. There will be no admission
       as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be
       drawn. CPMUK has relied on contract law allegations of breach
       against the driver only.
       >
       > The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
       driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
       of agency. Your PCN can only hold the driver liable. CPMUK have
       no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete
       waste of time and cancel the PCN.
       --- End Quote ---
       Hopefully, this will finally be resolved if CPMUK accept defeat,
       although I highly doubt they will. This will then move on to IAS
       if your friend wants to bother with that kangaroo court.
       I believe that the most likely outcome come is now going to be a
       claim which is easily defended and will, ultimately be
       discontinued, struck out or simply won.
       [/quote]
       Although it says the appeal can be appealed but upon trying to
       appeal i am getting an error
       "This PCN has already been appealed
       Please contact us if you wish to enquire about this PCN"
       I have taken a screenshot of this. Should i directly appeal to
       IAS saying that a new notice has been sent however my friend is
       unable to appeal?
       I guess they can't create a new pcn reference number on their
       system. Could this be why they were reluctant to transfer
       liability?
       [/quote]
       Having raised a complaint to them - they have sent the below
       response, they seem to be saying that my friend needs to use the
       previous issued PCN (which wasn`t under his name ) to appeal.
       Should I now proceed with the IAS appeal and add that there`s a
       new PCN issued but they will not allow me to appeal? And should
       I also raise this with the IPC via
  HTML https://www.theipc.info/
       ?
       --- Code ---
       Good Afternoon,
       
       Thank you for your email.
       
       All correspondence regarding a disputed Parking Charge Notice
       (PCN) must follow the correct appeals process.
       
       Within 21 days of the appeal response:
       If you are unhappy with your appeal response and are within 21
       days from the date your appeal was rejected, you can submit a
       Standard Appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). Please
       refer to the information provided within your response on how to
       do so.
       www.theIAS.org
       The Independent Appeals Service is the alternative dispute
       resolution scheme of our governing body, the International
       Parking Community.
       
       Outside 21 days of the appeal response:
       If you would like to appeal further but the 21 days to appeal
       as a Standard Appeal has elapsed, you will need to write to the
       Appeals department requesting to submit a Non-Standard Appeal
       with the Independent Appeals Service (IAS).
       Please write to the address provided below:
       Appeal Department
       UK Car Park Management Ltd
       PO BOX 3114
       Lancing
       BN15 5BR
       
       Please note, a £15.00 fee is payable to the IAS when
       submitting a Non-Standard Appeal.
       
       Unfortunately, as we are unable to discuss a dispute, all
       further correspondence relating to the Parking Charge Notice via
       this email address will not be responded to.
       
       
       Kind Regards
       
       Info Team
       --- End Code ---
       #Post#: 46104--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: b789
       Date: November 18, 2024, 1:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Did you send it as a formal complaint? Use the words "formal
       complaint" as many times as you think necessary to get through
       their thick skulls that this is not an appeal.
       The IAS is a farce and they are thieving bar-stewards if they
       think anyone who is getting advice here is going to waste £15 on
       them.
       #Post#: 47077--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
   DIR By: S.M
       Date: November 26, 2024, 6:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: b789 link ---
       >
       > Did you send it as a formal complaint? Use the words "formal
       complaint" as many times as you think necessary to get through
       their thick skulls that this is not an appeal.
       >
       > The IAS is a farce and they are thieving bar-stewards if they
       think anyone who is getting advice here is going to waste £15 on
       them.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes used the words formal complaint  - sent one again let`s see
       what they say
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