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#Post#: 43508--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 1, 2024, 10:01 am
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> But we don’t know what your friend wrote in their appeal.
Please show us.
>
> I also remind you about my advice in this post on the 18t
October on the likely outcome of any appeal:
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/pcn-broadstairs-botany-bay-cpm-lease-vehicle/msg41391/#msg41391
>
--- End Quote ---
This was written for the appeal
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/pcn-broadstairs-botany-bay-cpm/msg39979/#msg39979
Yes I have read the advice - Considering now that CPM are saying
they will send a new notice - does that actually transfer
liability? We are still waiting for the letter and as soon as I
have it I will post it here.
#Post#: 43510--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 1, 2024, 10:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> The hirer is your friend's employer, yes?
>
>
> Therefore as a matter of law your friend may not be held
liable by the creditor in lieu of the keeper, it's simply not
possible.
>
> They may hold your friend liable as driver, in which case PoFA
is irrelevant, there's no such thing as a NTH or NTK and the
creditor may pursue them pure and simply as a party to the
(alleged breached) of contract. There are NO 'notices' as such,
the creditor as prospective claimant may issue a Letter of Claim
but this is Administration of Justice procedure, not PoFA.
>
> Having said this, let's see the 'notice which is for your[your
friend's] records only' when it arrives.
>
> While PoFA doesn't apply, the creditor's Code of Practice does
and in this case it appears that an appeal to IAS should be made
and should be successful simply because the creditor has no
legal right under PoFA to hold your friend liable. The whys and
wherefores of the breach etc. etc. are not the issue.
>
--- End Quote ---
Should i get my friend to chase CPM to send the notice? and then
appeal via IAS?
#Post#: 43517--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: b789
Date: November 1, 2024, 10:41 am
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Until your friend receives the PCN addressed to them, we won't
know whether liability has been transferred. I doubt that Tusker
transferred the liability correctly in the first place so,
technically, they could still be liable under PoFA.
I certainly don't have any faith in the IAS to adjudicate
fairly, no matter how obvious to us that there isn't a c case to
answer.
#Post#: 43522--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 1, 2024, 11:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To repeat what I posted previously.
Your friend cannot receive a PCN (which, although not a defined
term under PoFA, is used in procedural parlance to mean Parking
Charge Notice) because them demanding money from your friend is
OUTSIDE PoFA because (although you haven't confirmed the point I
will use as a working hypothesis) he is neither the keeper(a
defined term) nor the hirer under a hire agreement with the
keeper.
PoFA deals ONLY with keeper liability and in this context how
the registered keeper may relieve themselves of their procedural
liability if they are a vehicle-hire firm.
Your friend's position and future options would become clearer
when this promised letter arrives.
Feel free to read for yourself:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
#Post#: 43523--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: November 1, 2024, 11:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Your friend cannot receive a PCN
>
--- End Quote ---
He can receive one if they send him one. Whether that would mean
he owes any money demanded is another matter enitrely. It may be
helpful to differentiate between what a company should do based
on the relevant legislation, vs what they might choose to do.
#Post#: 43534--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 1, 2024, 12:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Until your friend receives the PCN addressed to them, we won't
know whether liability has been transferred. I doubt that Tusker
transferred the liability correctly in the first place so,
technically, they could still be liable under PoFA.
>
> I certainly don't have any faith in the IAS to adjudicate
fairly, no matter how obvious to us that there isn't a c case to
answer.
>
--- End Quote ---
As mentioned beforehand - Tusker did not transfer liability -
all they said is that CPM will not accept the transfer (without
even attempting to do it)
#Post#: 43536--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 1, 2024, 12:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> To repeat what I posted previously.
>
> Your friend cannot receive a PCN (which, although not a
defined term under PoFA, is used in procedural parlance to mean
Parking Charge Notice) because them demanding money from your
friend is OUTSIDE PoFA because (although you haven't confirmed
the point I will use as a working hypothesis) he is neither the
keeper(a defined term) nor the hirer under a hire agreement with
the keeper.
>
> PoFA deals ONLY with keeper liability and in this context how
the registered keeper may relieve themselves of their procedural
liability if they are a vehicle-hire firm.
>
> Your friend's position and future options would become clearer
when this promised letter arrives.
>
> Feel free to read for yourself:
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
>
--- End Quote ---
correct as per how it is working out - my friend is neither the
hirer nor the keeper
Keeper is Tusker
Hirer is employer.
Thanks for the link
#Post#: 43542--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: b789
Date: November 1, 2024, 12:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, seeing as your friend appealed to CPM and their rejection
response was:
[indent]"After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I
am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your
appeal has been unsuccessful.
The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made
on the following basis."[/indent]
They have obviously accepted that your friend is liable,
according to their terminology. As your friend cannot, in
reality, be liable as they are neither the Hirer or the
Registered Keeper, this is their defence.
As for appealing to the IAS, that is their choice. Personally I
doubt they'd accept any argument but I would like to be proved
wrong.
If they were ever stupid enough to try and take it to court,
they wouldn't get far with it. Then again, you are dealing with
intellectually malnourished vermin. It's going to be a wait and
see game.
#Post#: 43554--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 1, 2024, 1:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, the appeal period to IAS is, according to the rejection,
'within 21 days of this rejection.'
Putting ambiguity to one side(from the date of the rejection or
its service) what was the date and how received?
#Post#: 43948--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Broadstairs Botany Bay - CPM - Lease Vehicle
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 4, 2024, 1:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Well, seeing as your friend appealed to CPM and their
rejection response was:
>
> [indent]"After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I
am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your
appeal has been unsuccessful.
> The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been
made on the following basis."[/indent]
>
> They have obviously accepted that your friend is liable,
according to their terminology. As your friend cannot, in
reality, be liable as they are neither the Hirer or the
Registered Keeper, this is their defence.
>
> As for appealing to the IAS, that is their choice. Personally
I doubt they'd accept any argument but I would like to be proved
wrong.
>
> If they were ever stupid enough to try and take it to court,
they wouldn't get far with it. Then again, you are dealing with
intellectually malnourished vermin. It's going to be a wait and
see game.
>
--- End Quote ---
Should i still get him to appeal on the basis that cpm have said
he is liable when in fact he shouldn't be? I'll get my friend to
send cpm an email asking them to send the notice. Nothing has
been received by my friend.
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