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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 39353--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: 56eps
Date: October 4, 2024, 2:47 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> I think you have just two choices: plead guilty or plead not
guilty.
>
> If you plead guilty not much you can say will significantly
alter the sentence so in that respect it doesn't matter whether
you attend court or not. The matter of the NIP is not mitigation
(i.e. it does not lessen the seriousness of the offence). As I
said, it is a reason why you should not be convicted.
>
> If you plead not guilty you will have to convince the court
that the efforts made by the police to trace your details so as
to be able to serve your NIP within 14 days were not good
enough. Whether that would succeed is anybody's guess, but I
think it may not.
>
> There is a big difference in the financial penalty. You face a
fine of half a week's net income. This will be reduced by a
third if you plead guilty. You will also pay a surcharge of 40%
of that fine. But prosecution costs are the big difference. A
guilty plea will see you pay about £90. Failure following a
trial will see you ordered to pay around £650. Three points will
be imposed in either eventuality.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for clarifying that. In terms of the potential
outcome, if I do plead not guilty and able to convince a court
that there was some break down in communication between systems
or whatever, and that DVLA clearly had me listed as the
registered keeper on the date in question, etc - I would still
end up with a fine and points?
#Post#: 39354--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 4, 2024, 2:48 am
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--- Quote ---
> With your statement above, that the police are relying on the
details being not practicable to obtain timely - does the
significant wait time between knowing my details from the
insurer to providing me the NIP make any dent to the
prosecution's argument?
> Thank you, btw
--- End Quote ---
Read what I wrote.
#Post#: 39355--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 4, 2024, 2:52 am
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Either an exception to the 14 day rule applies or the 14 day
rule applies.
If the court finds that the exception does not apply, then they
cannot convict you of the speeding offence.
If they find that the exception does apply, then the fact that
the NIP was served outwith the 14 days is irrelevant.
#Post#: 39361--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: 56eps
Date: October 4, 2024, 3:32 am
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> Either an exception to the 14 day rule applies or the 14 day
rule applies.
> If the court finds that the exception does not apply, then
they cannot convict you of the speeding offence.
> If they find that the exception does apply, then the fact that
the NIP was served outwith the 14 days is irrelevant.
>
--- End Quote ---
I imagine there is little nuance from a court's perspective. The
issue here is, with the information provided, where does my
specific situation fall? I am not versed in these things. I
cannot argue the law. All I can do is present the dates and
information provided by DVLA. I would think any sensible person
would see that some break down in communication occurred in the
route between DVLA and police. These issues should be the
responsibility of the DVLA and police, as I fulfilled my
responsibility by having my details logged with DVLA and
responding to the NIP timely.
I need to now make the decision how to plea. Is there a fighting
chance a court would find in my favour?
#Post#: 39374--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: BertB
Date: October 4, 2024, 4:34 am
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Just out of interest, what is the date on the bottom of pg2 on
your V5C?
You say you bought the car around a month before. I have an
electronic copy of my latest V5 and while it says date acquired
30/10 the issue date, i.e. when DVLA updated their records is
5/12. Which is 5 weeks later.
#Post#: 39379--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 4, 2024, 4:49 am
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--- Quote from: 56eps link ---
>
> These issues should be the responsibility of the DVLA and
police, as I fulfilled my responsibility by having my details
logged with DVLA and responding to the NIP timely.
>
--- End Quote ---
The police and the DVLA are not the same body. If the DVLA
messed up and the information was not sent to the PNC then that
is hardly the police’s fault. The police could then seek to rely
on the DVLA’s error to say why they couldn’t get your details.
#Post#: 39380--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: 56eps
Date: October 4, 2024, 4:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BertB link ---
>
> Just out of interest, what is the date on the bottom of pg2 on
your V5C?
>
> You say you bought the car around a month before. I have an
electronic copy of my latest V5 and while it says date acquired
30/10 the issue date, i.e. when DVLA updated their records is
5/12. Which is 5 weeks later.
>
--- End Quote ---
Its dated 1.5.24 - same date of the offence. Very unfortunate
timing! But still, I was registered as the keeper on the day. I
would think the police should have had access to that on 3.5.24.
#Post#: 39382--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: 56eps
Date: October 4, 2024, 5:00 am
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> [quote author=56eps link=topic=3337.msg39361#msg39361
date=1728030746]
> These issues should be the responsibility of the DVLA and
police, as I fulfilled my responsibility by having my details
logged with DVLA and responding to the NIP timely.
>
--- End Quote ---
The police and the DVLA are not the same body. If the DVLA
messed up and the information was not sent to the PNC then that
is hardly the police’s fault. The police could then seek to rely
on the DVLA’s error to say why they couldn’t get your details.
[/quote]
True, but how can any of that be proved? There is no error from
DVLA that I am aware of. The information I have from DVLA says I
was registered on 1.5.24 and the information I have from the
police is that they checked the database on 3.5.24.
#Post#: 39386--------------------------------------------------
Re: First NIP received after 14 days - registered keeper
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 4, 2024, 5:25 am
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--- Quote from: 56eps link ---
>
> True, but how can any of that be proved? There is no error
from DVLA that I am aware of. The information I have from DVLA
says I was registered on 1.5.24 and the information I have from
the police is that they checked the database on 3.5.24.
>
--- End Quote ---
The police will have a record of what was returned on the PNC
when they searched your registration number. Unless that was
your details as the RK, they could not have sent an NIP to you.
If it was someone else’s details, they would have sent an NIP to
them. Odds are there was no trace.
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