DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
*****************************************************
#Post#: 38662--------------------------------------------------
Single justice procedure notice - did not receive intermediate
letter
DIR By: Slick490
Date: September 28, 2024, 4:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys,
I received a letter from DVLA as attached - Road traffic act
1988 s144a and 144c
I changed my plate but forgot to mention it to DVLA - I know
it's silly but my brother usually deals with insurance and
plates etc but he forgot to notify DVLA. My insurance had the
correct plate on the car the whole time. I didn't even know this
was a thing!
I received a letter from MIB 6 months before this DVLA letter
explaining that I will have 28 days before they issue me a fine.
During that time I just had total knee replacement and couldn't
keep up with my letters or any of my daily activities - mixture
of being out of it with pain meds and actually being out of it
due to the pain...
From the people I've spoken to, they told me that I was supposed
to get a fine letter before this single justice procedure
notice.
I'd like a chance to at least pay the original fine whatever
that would be but I'm not sure how to go about it. If I tick
guilty it seems like I have no say and I get slapped with a
fine. If I tick guilty I have to attend court. That also seems
like an additional cost. I'm really lost.
How much is this fine if i tick guilty? They say if you tick
guilty it's 33% off whatever it is. They also mention that
there's a chance of a sentence as well, which, of course, I want
to avoid
from checking online people have mentioned to give DVLA a call.
Perhaps they could sort this issue outside of court?
​​​
Thanks for any help anyone can offer me
HTML https://ibb.co/56dcTp0
HTML https://ibb.co/42r4bLZ
HTML https://ibb.co/cX3NZwg
HTML https://ibb.co/3dMRk9v
HTML https://ibb.co/LrdkjCV
HTML https://ibb.co/wLKsCH9
HTML https://ibb.co/nwzPMcD
#Post#: 38679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: 666
Date: September 28, 2024, 5:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
S144a and 144c are to do with insurance. What has your number
plate got to do with it?
You say you had insurance, so why would you plead guilty? Please
explain what happened, with a timeline.
S144c says the Secretary of State MAY offer a fixed penalty.
There is no entitlement, and in any event it would be too late
as the matter is now with the court.
#Post#: 38683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 28, 2024, 5:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you are being prosecuted for a "continuous insurance"
offence - being the keeper of a vehicle that is not covered by
an insurance policy and is not declared SORN. This is far less
serious than driving without insurance.
I say "presumably", as I have no intention of reading through
scans to find out what is going on without the OP troubling us
with the basic details himself. I also don't know the ultimate
answer, and have no intention of trying to work it out for the
same reason.
My advice, as a moderator, is that if you want posters to give
up their free time to try to help you, it is often helpful to do
more of the leg work yourself, rather than being seen as someone
dumping a pile of paperwork on someone else's desk and asking
them to "kindly do the needful". That said, at least you have
presumably provided us with all the relevant information in the
scans.
On the face of it, the compound question is whether the fact
that the car was insured, but the issue arose because you
committed some other offence (failing to update the VRM with the
DVLA) a defence, and if so would admitting the other offence put
you in a better position.
These are all regulatory offences. Whether you intended to
commit them, or whether some other family member usually dealt
with such matters is irrelevant.
#Post#: 38749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: Slick490
Date: September 28, 2024, 3:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your reply. I didn’t give enough context, so I
appreciate you pointing that out. I thought itd be more helpul
with the links
Apologies for dropping the scans without explaining everything
properly!
To clarify the situation:
I received a Single Justice Procedure Notice under Section
144A(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 for not meeting statutory
insurance requirements, and it mentions that a Fixed Penalty
Notice was sent earlier in accordance with both Section 144A and
Section 144C.
The offence seems to be that I didn’t declare the vehicle as
SORN after changing the number plate, even though the car was
insured the entire time. I forgot to notify the DVLA, as my
brother usually handles this, and it was an oversight on our
part.
I did receive a letter from the MIB informing me I had 28 days
to act, but due to recovering from knee surgery, I didn’t
respond within that time. After that, I should have received a
letter with a small fine, but I never received that. Instead,
I’ve now been sent this Single Justice Procedure Notice, which
includes the possibility of a larger fine or court appearance.
Here are my main concerns:
1. Am I being penalised for both Section 144A and Section 144C,
or is Section 144C just referring to the process of issuing the
notice? From what I understand, Section 144C seems procedural,
but I want to make sure I’m not being charged for both.
2. If I plead guilty, what is the likely fine, and would it be
reduced by 33% for an early plea? I’m worried about the
potential costs, especially since the notice mentions a fine and
possibly a sentence. I'd also like to avoid court if possible,
but if I plead guilty, is attending court mandatory?
3. Is there any way to resolve this by paying the original small
fine that I would have been willing to pay if I had received the
letter? I’m frustrated that I never got the opportunity to pay
that smaller fine and would much prefer to settle the issue in
that way if possible.
4. Can I still contact the DVLA or another authority to try to
settle this without going to court, or is it too late now that
I've received the Single Justice Procedure Notice? I’ve read
that some people were able to sort these issues out with the
DVLA, but I’m unsure if I’ve passed that point.
Ultimately, I’d prefer to settle this with the original fine if
that’s possible, but I’m lost on how to proceed. Any guidance or
advice on the best way to handle this would be really
appreciated!
Thanks again for your time and help.
#Post#: 38808--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: slapdash
Date: September 29, 2024, 8:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Have I got this right ?
You have a vehicle reg ABC123D. You held apolicy for that
vehicle, but declared it as XYZ123, that was the reg on the
policy and presumably on display on the vehicle.
You changed the reg from ABC123D to XYZ123.
The MIB complained you didn't have a policy on (which one?), and
you didn't deal with this.
You have now got an SJPN for not having a policy on (which reg)
but do have a policy (and have all the time) on (which reg).
Explain to your insurers and ask for written confirmation that
cover would have been honoured for the other reg. They may be
prepared to confirm this.
If so then you may be able to persuade whoever issued
(presumably dvla) to withdraw.
Or use this as a basis for a not guilty plea (the vehicle was in
fact insured).
#Post#: 38814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: Slick490
Date: September 29, 2024, 9:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> Have I got this right ?
>
> You have a vehicle reg ABC123D. You held apolicy for that
vehicle, but declared it as XYZ123, that was the reg on the
policy and presumably on display on the vehicle.
>
> You changed the reg from ABC123D to XYZ123.
>
> The MIB complained you didn't have a policy on (which one?),
and you didn't deal with this.
>
> You have now got an SJPN for not having a policy on (which
reg) but do have a policy (and have all the time) on (which
reg).
>
> Explain to your insurers and ask for written confirmation that
cover would have been honoured for the other reg. They may be
prepared to confirm this.
>
> If so then you may be able to persuade whoever issued
(presumably dvla) to withdraw.
>
> Or use this as a basis for a not guilty plea (the vehicle was
in fact insured).
>
--- End Quote ---
The vehicle originally had the registration ABC123D, and I
changed the plate to XYZ123. I updated my insurance policy right
away to reflect the new plate, XYZ123, and it has been insured
under that plate the entire time.
However, I forgot to notify the DVLA about the plate change, so
as far as they’re concerned, ABC123D (the original plate) wasn’t
insured. That’s when the MIB stepped in and sent me a letter
saying I didn’t have insurance on ABC123D. Due to recovering
from knee surgery, I didn’t deal with the MIB’s letter in time.
I never received the small fine letter they were supposed to
send afterwards.
Now, I’ve received the Single Justice Procedure Notice for not
having insurance on the old plate, ABC123D, even though the
vehicle has been insured under XYZ123 the entire time.
I'm also not sure if I'm getting done for s144a and s144c. It's
not very clear. I've quoted exactly what it's said in the letter
above. I think it might be s144a which seems like a lesser
offence with no chance of points just a fine, and no other
penalties. But if someone could clarify this. It would be
helpful.
#Post#: 38815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 29, 2024, 10:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, as s. 144C does not create an offence, and s. 144A does,
I'm going to have to say that it's impossible to say which
section you're accoused of committing an offence under.
#Post#: 38819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: slapdash
Date: September 29, 2024, 10:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Slick490 link ---
> I'm also not sure if I'm getting done for s144a and s144c.
It's not very clear.
>
--- End Quote ---
Given the words it seems fairly clear it is s144a. Maybe I
missed some words.
My suggestion remains unchanged.
#Post#: 38825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: September 29, 2024, 12:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It does seem the the OP is not guilty of the offence under s
144A, as the vehicle was insured. He does seem to be guilty of a
registration offence though (not that it matters right now).
#Post#: 38829--------------------------------------------------
Re: Single justice procedure notice - did not receive
intermediate letter
DIR By: Slick490
Date: September 29, 2024, 12:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
What would happen if I plead guilty? What could potentially
happen? Is it just a fine?
Am I able to enter the reasoning for why this silly mistake
happened on the online portal?
Sorry for all the questions. Quite worried about this...
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page