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#Post#: 38644--------------------------------------------------
North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without displaying
a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: Froggy
Date: September 27, 2024, 5:16 pm
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TLDR: Paid for full day’s parking but the machine
didn’t print a ticket, payment reversed 8 days later,
appeal then rejected.
We paid £15 at the parking meter for a full day's parking.
Payment was taken from our bank account but the machine did not
produce a ticket. We sought advice from nearby tourist
information staff (potential witness), left a note in the
vehicle window to explain and then reported the machine fault
when we saw council car park attendants checking the paper in
the meter about 10 minutes later. When we returned to the
vehicle we had received a PCN. There had been no indication
that we would receive a refund, and the payment wasn't reversed
until 8 days later (we have an email from our bank as proof).
Three days after refunding our payment, NDC rejected our appeal,
on the grounds that our payment was marked as
“Unknown” in their system (ie. they have not
received the funds from us). Their rejection letter also stated
that if the parking meter was faulty we could have paid by cash
or online; as we didn't know until after paying that the machine
was faulty, this implies an expectation that we should have paid
twice (£30) for parking. They also stated that their sign
directs car parker users to contact the council in case of
faults but that they received no reports of a fault for that
day; this is categorically incorrect as we reported it in person
(unfortunately verbally so no written proof) to the council
staff attending the car park.
We have now been served the notice to owner and are planning to
appeal on the grounds that the contravention did not occur, as
well as potentially offering to repay the original parking fee
refunded to us. However, it is true that we were parked without
displaying a ticket so technically the contravention did occur
(although we had paid in full and reported the issue) - what
grounds do we have to appeal, and what evidence do we need?
Thanks in advance.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/1l2GqbT
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/a/1l2GqbT[/img]
#Post#: 38645--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 27, 2024, 5:33 pm
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I think they'd back down at next stage or not contest an appeal
if they did reject again.
But given you're effectively £15 up and the discounted penalty
is £25 it's a quibble over £10 at this stage.
#Post#: 38650--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 27, 2024, 6:16 pm
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It looks like you've received the usual Fob-Off letter we see so
often. At the NtO stage these things are normally looked at more
carefully. They can do this because 95% of people fold after
informal reps are rejected, so it's less workload ! If it were
me, I'd take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal if they prove
obdurate.
#Post#: 38667--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 28, 2024, 4:20 am
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Main council pics - the CEO spotted your note.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/mSfr8f0/ilf5.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/K62fMjw/ilf4.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/MR73YDh/ilf3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/pnXQ9vH/ilf2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/RY8B3Xf/ilf1.jpg
#Post#: 38674--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: mickR
Date: September 28, 2024, 5:03 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> I think they'd back down at next stage or not contest an
appeal if they did reject again.
>
> But given you're effectively £15 up and the discounted penalty
is £25 it's a quibble over £10 at this stage.
>
--- End Quote ---
think you'll find it's £50 in play now Stamf
#Post#: 38676--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 28, 2024, 5:08 am
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--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=3288.msg38645#msg38645
date=1727476386]
> I think they'd back down at next stage or not contest an
appeal if they did reject again.
>
> But given you're effectively £15 up and the discounted penalty
is £25 it's a quibble over £10 at this stage.
>
--- End Quote ---
think you'll find it's £50 in play now Stamf
[/quote]
Yup, although they may reoffer £25. Or better still may cancel.
#Post#: 38678--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: mickR
Date: September 28, 2024, 5:14 am
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I think the requirements of the authority to act in a fair and
reasonable manner comes into play alongside any other avenue
#Post#: 39686--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: Froggy
Date: October 7, 2024, 8:03 am
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Thanks for the helpful responses (and the photos - are those
published by the Council?!). I am just not sure whether to
appeal on grounds that the alleged contravention (not displaying
a valid pay & display ticket) did not occur, or because there
has been a procedural impropriety on behalf of the local
authority- any advice?
#Post#: 39839--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: peodude
Date: October 8, 2024, 8:54 am
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It's not one or the other, you can appeal on as many applicable
grounds as you want.
#Post#: 47004--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Devon Council, 83- parked in a car park without
displaying a valid tick , Ilfracombe Pier
DIR By: Froggy
Date: November 25, 2024, 1:22 pm
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Case update: We submitted Representations which were
investigated and ultimately rejected. However, we were never
sent a formal 'Notice of Rejection of Representations' letter
with pin code allowing us to appeal to the Tribunal. We've now
been sent a Charge Certificate and the Tribunal have told us we
can't appeal to them, we can only request that North Devon
Council consider a late appeal (which doesn't make sense, as we
already submitted our Representations on time). It seems North
Devon Council have somehow not recorded that we submitted
Representations - should we contact the council to ask about our
missing NoR, or is it best to just wait until the Order for
Recovery arrives and appeal that on the grounds that we never
received an NoR ?
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